| Introduction What follows is a complete transcript of a recent session from the DreamWheel, an e-mail based online dream sharing group that has been in continuous operation since 1995. DreamWheel members take turns presenting dreams for the group to work with, following guidelines established by John Herbert. In the first phase of the process members send questions for the dreamer to help clarify what happened in the dream and what thoughts and feelings accompanied those events during the dream. Then the comment phase begins, in which members take the dream as their own and send their comments to the group in the form of "If this were my dream...", to which the dreamer is then welcome to respond.
All participants in the session have graciously agreed to have their contributions reprinted here under pen names, so that others may see how the process works. We thank them all, especially "Jennifer," whose "Precarious Moments" made this sharing possible.
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Question Phase Begins
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From Moderator(Phyllis)
Hello DreamWheelers!
Thanks to [members who participated in the previous dream session]. ...now let's take a look at Jennifer's dream, "Precarious Moments." Take a deep breath first.
Below is the schedule and the instructions for this phase and then the dream. Please glance over the instructions, scroll down to the dream, and then send your questions to the DreamWheel: dreamwheel@yahoogroups.com
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Instructions:
Asking questions of the dreamer:
In this phase of the process you may ask the dreamer questions about the dream that may clarify the images of the dream. Do not ask questions that call for interpretations or that ask for material outside of the dream itself. The aim is to get to know the dream well AND also to allow for the maximum number of possible meanings being generated.
Clarifying Questions:
> >Example: If this were the DREAM: "He turned around and grabbed Bill's jacket away from me."You can ask:
1. Questions about the details of any aspect of the dream AS they appeared IN the dream, for example:
a. (feeling details) How did you feel (in the dream) when he grabbed Bill's jacket?
b. (action details) Can you describe exactly how he grabbed Bill's jacket (eg where was he in relation to you; what movement did he make; what movement did you make)?
c. (content details) What kind of jacket was it? How were you holding the jacket? Where were you when he grabbed the jacket?
2. Questions about how any "real" people or places in the dream differed from their "real" presentation in daytime life, for example:
a. (who/what was recognisable) Who is the "he" that grabbed the jacket? Do you know him? Is the place where this happened to you recognisable?
b. (how does the "familiar" differ) Was Bill's jacket the same in the dream as in your daytime life? If not, how was it different in the dream?
3. Questions about what a person/object/action etc means for the dream ego. You can ask something like: "What would the dream (plus name) have thought of the person/object/action etc". This makes sure that the emphasis remains on the dream and the dream ego rather than switching it to the daytime ego (who may have very different views upon the matter!).
**Please DON'T ask interpretation questions or questions about material OUTSIDE of the dream itself. For example AVOID questions like: Why do you think he grabbed your jacket? (though you might ask if any reasons went through your head during the dream.) Did you know that jackets represent symbols of appearance issues? Do you often have men grabbing your clothes in dreams? What does standing behind someone mean to you?
Send questions to the dreamer via the whole group at <dreamwheel@yahoogroups.com>.
Dreamers in reply:
If and when you reply to the questions, do so only to clarify the dream. Try to avoid interpretations at this point. If it is not clear from the dream how to answer a question, simply say it was not clear.
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The Dream
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Jennifer's dream: "Precarious Moments"
I step into an elevator and push the button to go down to the first floor. I get to the first floor, and the doors open. There is an oldlady standing there who has been waiting for the elevator. We notice that the elevator carriage has stopped not parallel to the floor, so I would have to step up about a foot and a half to get out. I press the first floor button again, hoping that the elevator will adjust itself.
Instead of adjusting, the elevator carriage begins to fall. As it falls, I grab onto the walls, trying to hang on. It falls to the end of the elevator track and a little beyond. The elevator only stops because it's connected to the ceiling with a rope. I am inside the elevator carriage which has no doors, suspended and swinging above an abyss. I look up and can see that the rope is healthy, that it won't snap from my weight and the weight of the carriage. I yell to the old woman to call the fire department for help so they can rescue me. She says OK and tells me to hold on. The elevator carriage is slightly askew, so I could easily fall out if I let go. I am very afraid. I desperately grab on to some rungs inside the carriage to tighten my hold. I don't know how long I can hang on.
Finally, the firemen arrive. They drive up to the elevator carriage. I realize that instead of taking me out of the carriage, that they are cutting the rope. I think to myself that these are professionals and know what they're doing, so I should trust their decision. They cut the rope with a knife and I, with the carriage, fall to the first floor with a big thud. I realize that I'm ok and get out of the carriage.
I see one of the firemen who rescued me and I want to thank him. He is blonde and very attractive. He smiles and is attracted to me, too. Somehow, we've become a couple and he asks me if I would like to begin working with him in a hand-made jewelry store that is now hiring. The store only wants to hire a couple. I walk with him to the jewelry store. There is a craftsman there (maybe the owner or manager) working on a piece of jewelry. He gives us both applications to fill out for the job. I fill out the application (it asks for my name, gender, address, phone number, etc.). After filling it out, we walk into an adjoining room. There is a pool there filled with sharks (like an aquarium). Part of the job requires that we swim in the pool with the sharks, maybe to feed or care for them. I'm somehow already in the pool under water and there are a couple of other girls who already work there. One of them is feeding a shark a chunk of red meat with her hand. I'm a little worried for her because of the shark's hunger; I'm worried that it could unintentionally bite her hand or fingers off. But she doesn't seem to be worried at all and even playfully teases the shark with the meat (which, with each bite, is getting smaller and smaller). Somehow we are able to breathe and talk under water because she is laughing and joking with the other girl while she feeds the shark. I understand that these are friendly sharks, but even so, they are sharks by species and by nature. For that reason, I can't relax, knowing that there may still remain some kind of dangerous, primordial reflex.
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From Fawn
Cool dream..I have a few questions, and may send more.
Are there any particular colors associated with the elevator? Does it seem familiar to you? Do you know anything about the building you are in?
Can you describe the old lady in more detail and tell us any feelings you may have around her?
When you realise the rope is going to be cut, do you immediately trust the decision or do you keep doubting that it will work and fear for your safety? Can you describe the fireman/boyfriend in more detail? Does he remind you of anyone from waking life?
Any feelings toward the girl feeding the shark? How about the shark itself...how do you feel toward the shark? Are you in any danger of the shark yourself? Can you remember any sensations associated with being underwater? With breathing underwater? Is the fireman still around during the shark part of the dream?
Thanks for sharing, looking forward to trying this dream on.
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From Scott Eagle
Greetings --Interesting dream. I have some questions...
Q: Do you know where the elevator was... in a building you recognize?
Q: What does the old lady look like, and what is she wearing? Q: Do you know what floor number you were on?
Q: You say [the elevator] has no doors, but before that a door opened... how did the elevator change?
Q: Did your feeling of fear continue when you awoke? How did you feel on waking?
Q: "...I realize that I'm ok and get out of the carriage." Did you speak to the firemen at this point? What did you say?
Q: What has become of the old woman?
Q: Where is this jewelry store? Do you recognize the neighborhood?
Q: "...I fill out the application (it asks for my name, gender, address, phone number, etc.). Did you fill it out with your real world address information, or something else?
Q: What else do you remember about the owner? What type of jewelry is he working on?
Q: "...Part of the job requires that we swim in the pool with the sharks, maybe to feed or care for them. I'm somehow already in the pool under water and there are a couple of other girls who already work there." Where is the fireman when this happens?
Q: Do you recognize the meat used in any way?
Q: How big are the sharks? How many sharks are there?
Thank you, I will enjoy working with your dream and telling you what it might mean if it were my dream.
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From Astra
Hi Jennifer:
Here are my questions on this interesting dream.
Astra What is the expression on the old woman's face?
Can you describe the fall and the impact of the evator?
Can you describe the fireman you are attracted to in more detail, characteristics that you like, what he reminds you of, etc.?
Do you see and can you describe the piece of jewelry that the craftsman is working on?
What are your duties in the jewelry besides feeding the sharks?
Where is the fireman when you get into the pool?
How do you feel in breathing under water?
What is the third girl doing?
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From Jennifer> Greetings --Howdy!
> Q: Do you know where the elevator was... in a building you recognize?
Yes. The building appears to be the one that I work in part-time. It's an office building that is shared by many small companies--sometimes three or four businesses on each floor. I thinkit's a 12-storey building.
> Q: What does the old lady look like, and what is she wearing?
Caucasian, short white hair (you know, an old-lady, beauty salon hair-do), thin but not frail (healthy old lady). She seems to be a friendly old crone with a sense of humor and a healthy mind. I don't remember exactly what she's wearing, but I had the impression that it wasn't something out of date. She wasn't "hip", but the clothes were something that she'd probably purchased within the last year or two, and not in and old-lady clothing store (whatever that is).
> Q: Do you know what floor number you were on?
I'm pretty sure it was the 14th floor. The reason I remember is because I had an extremely significant dream about a year ago about a guru who asked me if I "want(ed) to know the secret?" and that I would "find the answer on the 14th floor". After I had this dream (Precarious Moments), I remembered the guru's words from the previous 14-floor dream. After I had the guru dream, incidentally, I was watching a film called "The Game" and it turns out that Michael Douglas' character returns to the 14th floor and discovers that the company that he thought was a real company never really existed--it was just a facade for a larger "Game" that was playing for him. When I saw that happen in the film, an electric jolt shot up my spine as I realized that the events in my life are really a facade for a larger plot whose constructs and outcome are still beyond my ability to comprehend--that is, until "The Game" is finished. :)
> Q: You say [the elevator] has no doors, but before that a door opened... how did the elevator change?
The doors that open to the elevator are on each floor--not on the elevator carriage. So, each floor has its own elevator doors. The elevator carriage itself is doorless.
> Q: Did your feeling of fear continue when you awoke? How did you feel on waking?
I awoke after the shark sequence. I felt unsettled, kind of anxious.
> "...I realize that I'm ok and get out of the carriage." Q: Did you speak to the firemen at this point? What did you say?
I could hear them talking or understood somehow what they were doing, but I didn't speak to them because they were far from me--up at the top of the rope. They didn't speak to me either. Only the old woman had spoken to me until this point, and only once, telling me to hang on.> Q: What has become of the old woman?
I'm not sure. She probably took another elevator. :)
> Q: Where is this jewelry store? Do you recognize the neighborhood?
When I get out of the carriage, the scene has changed. There is now earth underneath me instead of a floor. I'm outside. I don't recognize the place, but this didn't seem strange to me in the dream. I'm no longer in a building. I don't recognize the store or any elements of this part of the dream from waking life.> "...I fill out the application (it asks for my name, gender, address, phone number, etc.)."
Q: Did you fill it out with your real world address information, or something else?
I think I filled in my name, but I don't remember what address I filled in. I just remember that I filled out what I needed to fill out.
> Q: What else do you remember about the owner? What type of jewelry is he working on?
You know, it's funny. . . your questions trigger images in my mind that seem to come out of nowhere. :) The image that came to me just now was an aquamarine gemstone set in a silver-patina brooch. :) Anyway, this was all hand-made jewelry--very detailed, fine, fine craftsmanship. It's the kind of work that requires a great deal of patience, attention to small details. . . the result being a marriage between something natural (gemstone, silver) and man-made (the detailed setting, the gemstone's facets). He takes something rough from the earth and works on it until it becomes piece of art, brings out the objects' most beautiful aspects. It was detailed enough work that he had to wear one of those magnifying eye-pieces that jewelers and watchmakers wear.
> "...Part of the job requires that we swim in the pool with the sharks, maybe to feed or care for them. I'm somehow already in the pool under water and there are a couple of other girls who already work there."
Q: Where is the fireman when this happens?
He is standing outside of the pool.> Q: Do you recognize the meat used in any way?
It seems like steak--like big chunks of beef, red meat. Raw.
> Q: How big are the sharks? How many sharks are there?
They are almost human-sized, but a little smaller.
> Thank you, I will enjoy working with your dream and telling you what it might mean if it were my dream.
Thank you for adopting my dream. I'm looking forward to reading your thoughts about it.
Sincerely,Jennifer
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From Jennifer
Hi, Scott.
I was reading over my response and realized I skipped something.
> > Q: How big are the sharks? How many sharks are there?>
> They are almost human-sized, but a little smaller.
There seem to be two or three sharks. I think there are three.
Jennifer
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From Jennifer
Hey, Astra. Thanks for taking my dream.
You know what I realized today? "Precarious Moments" is really "Precious Moments" but with an extra "ar" in the middle of the first word. I guess the dream would have been a precious moment except it was so "Arrrrr!" scary.
> What is the expression on the old woman's face?
The old woman seems to be pretty relaxed and calm about everything--not overly cool, but definitely not the hysterical type. I don't remember her exact facial expression, but the impression I have is that it is event-appropriate, but on the cool and collected side. As I may have mentioned to Scott, she was the type of person who kept her wits about her. [Sorry about switching verb tenses as I write. Sometimes I'm thinking from now, and sometimes I'm thinking as if I'm in the dream.] She strikes me as a person who is pretty balanced between her rational and emotional sides.
> Can you describe the fall and the impact of the elevator?
You mean after they cut the rope, yes? I remember bracing myself for the impact as it fell. It didn't seem like I was falling for a very long time, but neither was I falling for a very short time. I remember that there was a silence as I fell, and of course, I experienced the "falling dream" sensation. I think I might have curled up into a quasi-fetal position to brace myself for the impact (while still grasping and grabbing for rungs). The impact was significant, but I was more scared than hurt because I didn't know when or how hard I was going to hit the ground, so part of the pain of falling was the anxiety I experienced as I fell. I don't remember that any particular body part was more hurt than any other.
> Can you describe the fireman you are attracted to in more detail, characteristics that you like, what he reminds you of, etc.?
He's reeeeeally handsome! Light blonde hair (that I think was shoulder length), light blue eyes, tall, muscular build (but not TOO muscular. He probably worked out, but wasn't a body builder.), beautiful face. . . He was also the calm, kind type (strong and silent?)--sensitive, but not over-emotional. I guess he was like the old woman in that sense--balanced between rational and emotional sides. He reminds me of. . . an angel. Or a male supermodel with great depth of character.
> Do you see and can you describe the piece of jewelry that the craftsman is working on?
Not very well, but I got the impression while writing to Scott today that is was an aquamarine brooch. The piece of jewelry he was working on didn't play as large a role in the dream as his ability to work on it, which was with great skill and patience,
> What are your duties in the jewelry besides feeding the sharks?
I'm not sure. At this point, it's all that I've found out about the job. Perhaps there is more, but I don't know yet.
> Where is the fireman when you get into the pool?
Actually, I don't remember physically getting into the pool. I sort find myself in the pool already. I'm under the impression that the fireman is standing beside the pool, but I'm not paying attention to him.
> How do you feel in breathing under water?
It doesn't seem unusual.
> What is the third girl doing?
She's joking and laughing with the girl who is feeding the shark. She may be assisting the girl in some way (like handing the first girl meat), but at the time that I see them, the second girl is just beside the first one, not doing anything significant. Just joking and laughing and talking with the first girl.
Thank you, Astra! Let me know if you have any more questions.
Jennifer
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From Jennifer
Hi, Fawn!
Sorry I missed your questions until now. I've been wading through mail and missed your post somehow. Thank you for bearing with me.
> Are there any particular colors associated with the elevator?
The carriage seems to be a rusty red color--between red and brown.
> Does it seem familiar to you? Do you know anything about the building you are in?
The building seems to be the one that I work in part time. But in waking life, the building I work in is only 12 floors, and the one in the dream is 14 floors or more. I go down from the 14th floor.
> Can you describe the old lady in more detail and tell us any feelings you may have around her?
[See responses to Scott and Astra.] As for additional feelings, I think I was glad that there was someone there to call for help, but most of my feelings and thoughts were focused on the predicament I was in.
> When you realise the rope is going to be cut, do you immediately trust the decision or do you keep doubting that it will work and fear for your safety?
At first, I question (in my mind) if cutting the rope is really the right thing to do. That is my first reaction--my gut reaction. But I reassure myself by reminding myself that they are professionals and that I should trust them. After reminding myself that they are professionals, I trust their decision. I don't feel that I really have a choice anyway.
> Can you describe the fireman/boyfriend in more detail? Does he remind you of anyone from waking life?
[See response to Astra.] As for reminding me of anyone in waking life, no he doesn't. I don't think I ever met such an attractive guy in waking life. :) I think he's wearing a fireman's uniform. My biggest impression of him was how attractive he was to me.
> Any feelings toward the girl feeding the shark?
I felt somewhat worried for her. That's about all. I hadn't known her long enough to develop any other feelings, and I didn't have any big impression about her except for the fact that she did such seemingly dangerous work in such a carefree manner.
> How about the shark itself...how do you feel toward the shark?
I'm worried about the shark--that it has sharp teeth and that it's hungry. I don't feel that I'm in as much danger as the girl who is feeding it since she's the one holding the food. At this point I try to reassure myself that these are friendly sharks or trained ones that are used to being fed and handled by people. Again, I am trying to calm myself from a negative gut reaction, as with the firemen.
> Are you in any danger of the shark yourself?
I don't think so, but I'm certainly not relaxed. The shark that is eating seems to be focused on the food in the feeder girl's hand and not on me.
> Can you remember any sensations associated with being underwater? With breathing underwater?
Nothing comes to mind. Nothing seems unusual at all that I am underwater, and that I can breathe there. It seems natural.
> Is the fireman still around during the shark part of the dream?
Yes. He accompanies me into the room with the sharks, but is not in the pool with me while I'm in the pool. I think he's standing outside the pool, but I don't know exactly what he's doing because he's not in my field of vision and I'm paying attention to the shark feeding that is going on.
Thank you for taking this dream, Fawn. I'm looking forward to hearing your experience with it.
Sincerely,
Jennifer
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Message From Lisa
Hello. I am a newbee on lists and may not know how this one works. I wouldn’t want to unintentionally breach ettiquet … Is it “early” or “late” in this discussion? How long or until when is a given dream up for comment? Is this the way to comment on “precarious Moments”? Jennifer, can you describe the details and colors of the jewlry? What associations do these colors call up for you? Are there finished pieces on display and ready for purchase? How do these pieces feel to the touch? How are they mounted? Are they loose or in combination? Do you have to reply to each email on the list? or just one of them? Am I even replying to the right person?
Forgive me I’m a babe in the woods here …Lisa
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From Moderator
Hi Lisa and other newcomers to the DreamWheel. We're midway through Jennifer's "Precarious Moments" dream, and will be moving on from the question phase to the comment phase tomorrow (instructions will come with the comment phase post). Then a new dream will open around next Tuesday. We spend a week on each dream. And no, you don't have to reply to everyone on the list (thank goodness, there are over 200!). Just replying to a message will get it to the whole list.
And welcome to the DreamWheel!
~Phyllis (moderator) ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
From Jennifer Hi, Lisa. Welcome to the list.
I'll answer your questions so you can go on to participate in the comment phase (where you take the dream as your own) if you wish.
> can you describe the details and colors of the jewlry?
I received the impression that it was an aquamarine stone set in silver. Aquamarine is a light blue color.
> What associations do these colors call up for you?
The brooch reminds me of two other elements in the dream: the pool and the fireman's eyes. If one imagines looking down at a swimming pool, it is a light blue color, like an aquamarine. I suppose the silver setting could be like the walls and floor of the pool. As for the fireman's eyes, they also were a light blue color. Also, the words "aquamarine" and "aquarium" are similar--both having to do with water.
> Are there finished pieces on display and ready for purchase? How do these pieces feel to the touch? How are they mounted? Are they loose or in combination?
No. There aren't any other pieces of jewelry in the store.
Thanks for participating!Jennifer
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Comment Phase
Begins
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From Moderator
Hello DreamWheelers!
Guess we're ready to move to the comment phase for Jennifer's dream, "Precarious Moments." Thanks to great questions from Fawn, Scott, Astra, and Lisa, and in-depth responses from Jennifer, we should now be able to take this dream and make it our own.
Below is the schedule and the instructions for this phase and then the dream. Please glance over the instructions then scroll down to the dream, read it and send your comments to the DreamWheel at: dreamwheel@yahoogroups.com.
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Comment Instructions
In this part of the process, you may comment on the dream. While you are welcome to make any comments you wish, what we are teaching in this group is a non-defensive style developed by John Herbert (Montague Ullman stage II Variation) modified for email. This segment is the one in which each group member takes the dream as if it were his or her own and shares feelings and thoughts about the dream and what it might mean in each member's life situation.
1. You can comment on what ANY aspect of the dream means FOR YOU:
a. The feelings YOU have about any aspect of the dream or about the whole dream.
b. The metaphorical or symbolic meanings FOR YOU of any actions or images in the dream.
c. The relationship between any dream images and events and what that relationship means FOR YOU.
d. The relationship between all dream images and events as YOU see them (you can change the order of events and images and present them in the way you feel makes most sense to YOU).
2. In your comments make the dream your own:
a. At the beginning of all comments use something like: "If this were my dream..." This sets up the general subjective attitude and works as a reminder to the commentators that they are not telling the dreamer what they think the dream means for the dreamer, but rather what the dream might mean for themselves if they had had that dream.
b. To further this relationship to the dream write the commentary as if you were talking about your OWN dream happening NOW (use the first person singular and also present tense in your commentary):
> > >EXAMPLE: Dream: "I'm looking at my mother walking down a long hall towards an open window."
I might comment "In MY dream the nurturing mother has found a new way to escape ME." In my comment, it is "my mother", "my hallway" and "my dream". This may or may not provide insight to the initial dreamer, but it's surprising how often this non-defensive approach does lead to new insights for both the dreamer and the commentator.
3. Send your comments in to the whole group at: dreamwheel@yahoogroups.com
Dreamer's Response
At the end of the comment phase the dream is returned to its source and the dreamer can reply. The type of reply is entirely up to the dreamer - but some response helps both the commentators and the dreamer. It provides closure for the commentators and helps the dreamer to make what was learned in the process more firmly his/her own.
1. Immediate response: The dreamer gives some IMMEDIATE response. a. The dreamer can indicate what possible new ways of thinking or acting or feeling were opened up by the process of answering the clarifying questions and of reading the comments from others.
b. The dreamer may like to indicate what life context the dream seems to be addressing and whether the DreamWheel process revealed new aspects of that context.
c. The dreamer may just wish to thank the commentators.
2. Later Response The dreamer can do further work on the dream. He/she may gain new insights connected with the dream:
a. through other dreams (which are either consciously incubated or which just arise).
b. through insights from the initial DreamWheel process which come after the focus period.
c. through some new awareness of their life context.
The dreamer can then share his/her insights with others on the DreamWheel AT ANY TIME. Such sharing can help build the dream group as a group. It can also teach us all much more about the interplay of dreams and our daytime lives.
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[Note: The dream is repeated here]
This is important so that as participants take on the dream as their own, they have the dream immediately available and don't have to search back through a week or two of e-mail.
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From Scott Eagle
Greetings --
If this were my dream, I might like to begin by identifying the symbols in the dream and pondering them a bit. The elevator, the old lady, falling, the fireman, the jewelry, the number 14, an aquamarine gemstone in a brooch, the red meat, and the sharks all stand out to me as I reflect on the dream. Interesting that in the tall building, I break free, but in the next sequence I am more grounded. The first scene is filled with helpers for me, while in the second, I observe others performing unrelated tasks. Firemen wear red... the meat is red. The Fireman's eyes are blue and so is the brooch and the water. It also seems curious to me that the building I know has but 12 floors in reality, has an extra 2 floors in the dream. I conciously relate 14 to a movie, and a previous dream about a guru who spoke of the 14th floor, but I do not recall anything that was on that floor other than the old woman.
Next, I think about the people in my dreams and what their significance might be:
The old woman, calm and helpful.
The handsome fireman who rescues me, then transitions into the next sequence
The skilled jeweler who conveniently looks for a couple to hire, and works on a delicate brooch
The carefree girl laughingly feeding raw meet to a shark underwater
As I think of those people, I first wonder what part of me each one could be? Could the old woman be my inner guide through a time of great transition? Is the fireman another part of myself that pulls me back from bad decisions? Is the jeweler the crafting part of me who both makes things well, and also craftily deals with people? Am I a bit too carefree at times like the girl underwater, and unaware of potential danger? What part of me is the shark?
As I usually do, I wish I could reenter the dream and ask each character an important question:
The old woman I would ask, "Why are you here for me?"
The fireman I would ask, "Why have you come for me?"
The jeweler I would ask, "For whom do you make this brooch?"
The girl I would ask, "Why do you not fear the shark?"
And I think the last question will be very valuable, since when I awake, I still feel the anxiety caused by the shark. It is a worry about the hunger of the shark, so I wonder what part of me is hungry for something. It is interesting that the meat was bright red, and that firemen also wear red. The pool is blue, and so were the fireman's eyes -- like I am still swimming in his eyes. I found the fireman quite handsome and attractive. Also, I know that water might mean emotions, so am I submerged in my emotions while part of myself offers a sacrifice to the sharks? Does the girl feed my fantasy man -- the meat of my desire -- to the sharks?
Why does the dream begin in the building where I work? Do I fear if I climb higher, perhaps in my job, that I might risk a fall? It does seem I have guidance, at least, that will help me survive.
Finally, I find it helpful to write a couple of "dream mottos" for this experience:
[ ] Climbing beyond boundaries, I fall but find guidance that rescues me
[ ] I eat the meat of my desire and it makes me anxious
I wish you well --
Scott Eagle
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From Jill
Hi Jennifer. If this were my dream, stepping into an elevator and pressing the button to go down might mean I am ready to go down into my unconscious mind. I get off at the first floor,
ready to take the first step in this process, at the edge of my unconscious. Here I see an "oldlady" part of myself. But I find I'm not ready to take this step and have to make a readjustment first. But now I am falling, plunging down and hanging by a thread. This process feels out of control and I'm hanging on and calling for help. It's the old lady part of me, the prudent and mature feminine, who I can count on when things get hairy.
Then the firemen arrive, my inner masculine aspects that are strong and know how to handle precarious moments and put out the fires when they become destructive. I know to trust them,
even if what they're doing seems dangerous. They are cutting the rope that keeps me suspended here. Maybe I have realized that I can trust the journey into the unconscious, dangerous as it seems.
And now, with a big thud, I am there, and find there are really some quite attractive features in this place. First and foremost that fireman, that very appealing inner masculine who is always available to help me out, and keep the inner fires under control. I find it's easy to be in partnership with him, and that there are very special capabilities that are only possible when we are joined together. Together we can learn to make beautiful jewelry, can combine the natural with the human in pleasing ways. I want this. I fill out my identity with this. And I find that part of this new identity involves swimming with the sharks, feeding them and taking care of them.
My first thought was that maybe the sharks represent powerful instinctual parts of myself that I have been wary of, and maybe I am starting to learn how to take care of these parts, how to
swim with them. But I wonder now. If it were some other kind of creature this might fit, but I don't know if this can work with sharks. I think instead they may appear here as a caution.
Maybe there is a feminine part of me who takes too many risks, laughing and teasing with powerful forces, and I'm starting to realize how dangerous this could be. I could lose my hand, lose my grip or my ability to handle things. Maybe I need to be wary, be careful not to let those sharks consume my energy.
Hope I haven't spooked you. These are my own projections of course.
Jill
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
From Antonius
Hi Jennifer. Interesting dream, thanks for sharing it. It feels like one of my dreams because in some of my dreams i experience the askew elevator without doors where i am afraid to fall out of it. It may be both my real fear of height and maybe loss of control.
If this were my dream...
Going down often feels like its a journey into the subconsious, things that i have hidden from myself. I feel the elevator may tell many different things though. I wonder if i feel isolated and out of control here. I am alone in the elevator and it doesn't obey my commands. Could it be that i have let outer things getting the control over me, forced me into this small elevator where i dont got much space to move around. This older woman makes me think that maybe i have let my masculine part control my life and now i feel stuck because of it. Still i dont dare to do anything. I feel im hanging above an abyss and if i move i may fall. Even if i feel im out of space, at least i got something to hold onto. Im afraid that doing anything could make things worse.
So i call to my feminine side for help. She calls for them firemen, strong professional resources that i have within me. I may not understand it but they seem to understand that the only way for me to get rescued is to let go of the percieved control i got. I need to understand im not in control. Only then can i find what im searching for.
I see the jewelry store as a part of me. Now when i have let go of the things i was desparately clinging to, i can work on myself. I can get my thoughts clear and sparkling like gems. Yet im not done. I need to confront the things that i fear. I need to realise that things aren't black or white. I need to learn not to judge things from their looks. I feel that if the girls can breathe under water, then why shouldn't i be able to? Yet i am afraid of getting eaten or maybe drowning. I feel i have to let go of the old reflexes of fear so i can act with a clear mind.
Maybe this dream is about spiritual search, the jewelry (makes me think of the three jewels in Jainism), the water, confronting myself. It may be that my current beliefs is limiting me instead of broadening my views. Yet i dont want to let go of them because i still feel there is a little safety in what i know. I need to realise i am fooling myself that i am in control.
/ Antonius
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
From Lisa
Commentary on Jennifer's Dream.
No attempt will be made here to interpret or ascertain the meaning or any instruction carried in the dream; since only the dreamer can do that. The object is rather to explicate it, to look at its elements in more detail through the lens of imagination, which is itself the very stuff of dreams.
The elevator.
The elevator transports the dreamer from the "top" floor, a place of relative safety, to (more or less) the first floor, a place of danger. It does this because, as a machine constructed and maintained by human beings, it contains a flaw. The true nature of this elevator is revealed when it stops between the floors and becomes, instead of a smoothly operating system of gears and motors, nothing but a swinging gyrating platform suspended by a length of (perhaps) rotten rope.
The Old Woman.
Old women, at least some of them, are thought to be repositories of wisdom, if not the accumulated knowledge of the ages. It appears, though, that the old woman in the dream doesn't know much about stuck elevators, perhaps having grown up in a different world. She calls the fire department, as instructed, but has to be told to do this by the dreamer. The old woman's concern is indicated by her leaving the dreamscape instead of maybe sticking around to direct the firemen and making sure the dreamer is going to be okay. Despite having to deal with stuck technology and self-absorbed, scatter-brained octogenarians, the dreamer is still in control.
Actually I am not sure how this may be received as I am a newbee. Is this kind of the right idea here? I would have gone on to explicate the fireman, the sharks, the jewelry, and the girls in the tank ...
Hmmmmmmm.
What thinks Jennifer?
Lisa
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
From Astra
Hi Jennifer:
If it were my dream, I would look at the elevator as a confined space in which I feel safe and protected, much like a womb. I'm in my mother's womb, but it is not the safe place I thought it was because it starts falling down. While my intellectual mind thinks I'm losing control, what I'm really losing is the secure space that was mine before birth. The rope is like an umbilical cord that needs to be severed before I can fall into my unconscious mind and really know myself. The old woman reminds me of a midwife, holding knowledge and power to help me through the transition. There maybe a memory of my birth process in which my mother and I needed medical intervention. And I was born, finally freed from the costraints of my physical connection to another human being. It can feel pretty lonely up there, waiting for the doctors (firemen) to cut the rope that will let me live and breathe.
Now the fireman who helped me has transformed in an object of interest and maybe desire. I'm a big girl and give in to my feelings of sensual attraction. I'm asking myself if I'm really ready to make a jewel (child) with this man. Social conventions tell me that a good person should have children, but I'm considering all the options (filling out applications.) If I want to go through with everyone's desire for me to be a parent, I have to swim with the
sharks, in an unsafe pool where other people seem to have found their destiny. Water is an emotionally charged archetype that speaks to me of unconscious fears and emotions, of an environment where I can be free to experience them, of a nourishing and comfortable environment for babies before birth, of a cleansing element. Water is a sustainer of life, any type of living being needs water to grow, and every being is necessary to the balance on this planet. Earth is also the Blue Planet, the planet where water reigns. I may want to investigate the real connection that I have to Earth. My inner feminine calls me to trust my intuition and get connected to water and Earth.
In my dream, all four elements of esoteric alchemy are present: Water, Earth, Air and Fire (firemen). I can breathe under water, I have passed a very difficult test and now I'm able to exist in a condition that would have not been possible before, or I'm returning to my condition of fetus. On another level, the dream may warn me against dangerous signs of impending disease. The pool may indicate liquid retension or problems with the urinary system and kidneys. Since the pool is infested by sharks, although they do not seem dangerous, I would call the doctor for a check up. The girl in the pool symbolizes my reckless self, feeding the sharks instead of keeping them away. Is it something in my diet, smoke, alchool that are endangering my life? Moreover, the rope I'm hanging on may represent a dangerous lifestyle choice I have made that may threaten my life. I get off unarmed since the firemen save me this time, but there maybe a next time if I don't take precautions. I'm even talking about a "kind of dangerous, primordial reflex" that reminds me of survival issues at stake. Sorry about this, but it's better to be safe than sorry!
It was very interesting to make projections on this dream. I never know where a dream may take me until I sit down at my computer and start jotting down ideas. I hope this makes sense, and be well. Astra
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
From Jennifer
> Greetings --
Hello!
> "Interesting that in the tall building, I break free, but in the next sequence I am more grounded. The first scene is filled with helpers for me, while in the second, I observe others performing unrelated tasks. Firemen wear red... the meat is red. The Fireman's eyes are blue and so is the brooch and the water. It also seems curious to me that the building I know has but 12 floors in reality, has an extra 2 floors in the dream. I conciously relate 14 to a movie, and a previous dream about a guru who spoke of the 14th floor, but I do not recall anything that was on that floor other than the old woman."
Thank you for bringing these up. I hadn't thought about the observing/performing and falling/grounded contrast.
> "As I think of those people, I first wonder what part of me each one could be? Could the old woman be my inner guide through a time of great transition?"
Good questions. I do feel like I have a wise inner guide. This was probably her manifestation in the dream.
> "Is the fireman another part of myself that pulls me back from bad decisions?"
Another good question. It could also be the part of myself that rescues me from them. :)
> "Is the jeweler the crafting part of me who both makes things well, and also craftily deals with people?"
Ooh! Hadn't thought about it in the dealing with people context.
> "Am I a bit too carefree at times like the girl underwater, and unaware of potential danger?"
Sometimes I do feel that I am too carefree. Perhaps it's because of those carefree decisions (if they're not good ones) that the fireman part of me has to come to the rescue. Perhaps I am afraid of making those kinds of whimsical decisions that complicate my life. I don't make them as often now, but I certainly did a few years ago. Perhaps that is the fear.
> "What part of me is the shark?"
The part that may have "bitten off more than it could chew" in the past. :)
> "As I usually do, I wish I could reenter the dream and ask each character an important question:
The old woman I would ask, 'Why are you here for me?'
The fireman I would ask, 'Why have you come for me?'
The jeweler I would ask, 'For whom do you make this brooch?'
The girl I would ask, 'Why do you not fear the shark?'"
Again, very good questions.
> "Also, I know that water might mean emotions, so am I submerged in my emotions while part of myself offers a sacrifice to the sharks?"
I do feel like I am sometimes too emotional. Perhaps I am feeding myself to the sharks when I over-react.
> "Why does the dream begin in the building where I work? Do I fear if I climb higher, perhaps in my job, that I might risk a fall? It does seem I have guidance, at least, that will help me survive."
It does seem that the higher I climb in my career that the further I do have to fall. :) Taking risks can be fearful for me.
"[ ] Climbing beyond boundaries, I fall but find guidance that rescues me
[ ] I eat the meat of my desire and it makes me anxious"
Great thought morsels! (Chomp Chomp!)
Thank you Scott for your helpful questions and for the mottos. I hadn't thought of assigning mottos to a dream before.
Sincerely,
Jennifer
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
From Jennifer
> Hi Jennifer.
Hi, Jill!
> "If this were my dream, stepping into an elevator and pressing the button to go down might mean I am ready to go down into my unconscious mind."
That resonates with me.
> "I get off at the first floor, ready to take the first step in this process, at the edge of my unconscious. Here I see an 'oldlady' part of myself. But I find I'm not ready to take this step and have to make a readjustment first."
Interesting. Perhaps this is where the fear first begins--having to rely on my own inner wisdom as opposed to the wisdom or counsel of others. In many ways, I do feel that I'm beginning my life as an independent person and have had to rely a lot more on myself in the past couple of years.
> "But now I am falling, plunging down and hanging by a thread. This process feels out of control and I'm hanging on and calling for help. It's the old lady part of me, the prudent and mature feminine, who I can count on when things get hairy."
Feeling out of control of my life really is a scary thought for me.
> "Then the firemen arrive, my inner masculine aspects that are strong and know how to handle precarious moments and put out the fires when they become destructive. I know to trust them, even if what they're doing seems dangerous. They are cutting the rope that keeps me suspended here. Maybe I have realized that I can trust the journey into the unconscious, dangerous as it seems."
In any case, it seems that what ever I do, I have inner reserves to help me through the situation. Perhaps it might have been wiser to "step up" in the beginning as opposed to trying to adjust things exactly the way I would have wanted to be "pressing elevator button". Perhaps the dream reminds me to step up in my life--make adjustments in myself--as opposed to making adjustments in my environment.
> "And now, with a big thud, I am there, and find there are really some quite attractive features in this place. First and foremost that fireman, that very appealing inner masculine who is always available to help me out, and keep the inner fires under control."
And to keep the inner fires burning. ;-)
> "I find it's easy to be in partnership with him, and that there are very special capabilities that are only possible when we are joined together. Together we can learn to make beautiful jewelry, can combine the natural with the human in pleasing ways."
Interesting. I am an oboist--this could be what the dream refers to when it presents the "crafting". Each piece of music is like a jewel or jewelry that I must craft into a work of art. And very often, I do feel masculine as well as feminine when I'm working on my music. This is probably the partnership that the dream refers to.
> "I want this. I fill out my identity with this."
I think this is true. I do identify myself with my work--my identity as an artist.
> "And I find that part of this new identity involves swimming with the sharks, feeding them and taking care of them."
Yes! I often feel that when I'm working on my music that I'm trying to tame a wilder part of myself. This has to do with the extremely emotional, sensitive side that I have. I'm constantly trying to control that part of myself.
> "My first thought was that maybe the sharks represent powerful instinctual parts of myself that I have been wary of, and maybe I am starting to learn how to take care of these parts, how to swim with them."
I do feel that I am in some control with the emotional aspects of myself when I play, but yes, I do still worry about losing it. And actually, when I perform, I do have a difficult time controling my nervousness.
> "But I wonder now. If it were some other kind of creature this might fit, but I don't know if this can work with sharks. I think instead they may appear here as a caution. Maybe there is a feminine part of me who takes too many risks, laughing and teasing with powerful forces, and I'm starting to realize how dangerous this could be. I could lose my hand, lose my grip or my ability to handle things. Maybe I need to be wary, be careful not to let those sharks consume my energy."
Perhaps I may be even be spending too much energy worrying about controling those parts of myself. I probably need to focus more on the "crafting" aspect of my work as opposed to the "control" part.
> "Hope I haven't spooked you. These are my own projections of course."
Very accurate projections. I have a running joke with a friend of mine who's a therapist. Sometimes he'll say something judgemental to me and I'll respond, "You're projecting!" to which his response is, "But I'm only projecting on you and not anyone else!" I also say that
to him when vice-versa occurs. :) It's a joke, of course.
Thank you, Jill!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
From Jennifer
> Hi Jennifer
Hi, Antonius!
> "Interesting dream, thanks for sharing it. It feels like one of my dreams because in some of my dreams i experience the askew elevator without doors where i am afraid to fall out of it. It may be both my real fear of height and maybe loss of control."
In my case, it's probably the latter (though I am afraid of heights, too).
> "If this were my dream... Going down often feels like its a journey into the subconsious,
things that i have hidden from myself. I feel the elevator may tell many different things though. I wonder if i feel isolated and out of control here. I am alone in the elevator and it doesn't obey my commands. Could it be that i have let outer things getting the control over me, forced me into this small elevator where i dont got much space to move around."
Hmm. . . Another question might be "How have I allowed outer events to influence my environment?" I'm of the ilk that not only do things happen to us, we sometimes allow situations to become the way they are. Of course, that's not true in every single case, but I mean generally. Another way to "control" or to lose control of a situationlies in the way that we handle or respond to it.
> "This older woman makes me think that maybe i have let my masculine part control my life and now i feel stuck because of it."
Just between you and me (and the list), a Jungian therapist did tell me I was previously "Animus Possessed". Maybe as a result, dealing with life through my masculine side has made things harder than they could have been if I had just relied on my feminine self.
> "Still i dont dare to do anything. I feel im hanging above an abyss and if i move i may fall. Even if i feel im out of space, at least i got something to hold onto. Im afraid that doing anything could make things worse."
Sometimes I feel that way about school. It's a very structured environment, like the elevator carriage is, and I do sometimes feel that I'm clinging on to it, afraid to let go--to trust life.
> "So i call to my feminine side for help. She calls for them firemen, strong professional resources that i have within me. I may not understand it but they seem to understand that the only way for me to get rescued is to let go of the percieved control i got."
Exactly. And "perceived" is a key word here. Perhaps the control I have is only an illusion.
> "I need to understand im not in control. Only then can i find what im searching for."
This is extremely profound. And extremely difficult. :)
> "I see the jewelry store as a part of me. Now when i have let go of the things i was desparately clinging to, i can work on myself. I can get my thoughts clear and sparkling like gems. Yet im not done. I need to confront the things that i fear. I need to realise that things aren't black or white. I need to learn not to judge things from their looks. I feel that if the girls can breathe under water, then why shouldn't i be able to? Yet i am afraid of getting eaten or maybe drowning. I feel i have to let go of the old reflexes of fear so i can act with a clear mind."
Thank you for this. I feel that it is true in my case.
> "Maybe this dream is about spiritual search, the jewelry (makes me think of the three jewels in Jainism), the water, confronting myself. It may be that my current beliefs is limiting me instead of broadening my views."
This is a scary thought, so you're probably right. :)
> "Yet i dont want to let go of them because i still feel there is a little safety in what i know. I need to realise i am fooling myself that i am in control."
Yep. I need to learn to let go and trust life.
Thank you Antonius. This was very profound.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
From Jennifer
Hi, Lisa.
> "No attempt will be made here to interpret or ascertain the meaning or any instruction carried in the dream; since only the dreamer can do that. The object is rather to explicate it, to look at its elements in more detail through the lens of imagination, which is itself the very stuff of dreams."
Very intelligent introduction. :)
> "The elevator transports the dreamer from the 'top' floor, a place of relative safety, to (more or less) the first floor, a place of danger."
Interesting thought. It seems that it would be the other way around but it isn't. Instead of the upper floors being dangerous, it's first floor--the "grounded" one that frightens me. Perhaps I am afraid of "coming down to earth."
> "It does this because, as a machine constructed and maintained by human beings, it contains a flaw."
As Antonius mentioned, perhaps this flaw is the perceived control that I have.
> "Old women, at least some of them, are thought to be repositories of wisdom, if not the accumulated knowledge of the ages."
The archetypical crone. My inner repository of wisdom!
Thank you Lisa for the interesting insights.
And thank you everyone who has contributed their time and energy. This has really given me a lot of new thoughts to ponder as I travel on my path through this "precarious" life. ;)
Good luck to you all as you continue on your own paths.
Most Sincerely,
Jennifer
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Message From Jennifer
Dear Astra,
Thank you for taking the time out to give such a thorough adaptation of this dream. I really appreciate this.
> "If it were my dream, I would look at the elevator as a confined space in which I feel safe and protected, much like a womb.
"This is a very interesting comparison. It hadn't occurred to me, but it makes so much sense!
> "I'm in my mother's womb, but it is not the safe place I thought it was because it starts falling down. While my intellectual mind thinks I'm losing control, what I'm really losing is the secure space that was mine before birth.
"Yes. This whole scenario could be interpreted as the birthing process. Babies probably also experience anxiety or discomfort during the period when the mother is in labor and giving birth.
> "The rope is like an umbilical cord that needs to be severed before I can fall into my unconscious mind and really know myself. The old woman reminds me of a midwife, holding knowledge and power to help me through the transition. There maybe a memory of my birth process in which my mother and I needed medical intervention. And I was born, finally freed from the costraints of my physical connection to another human being. It can feel pretty lonely up there, waiting for the doctors (firemen) to cut the rope that will let me live andbreathe.
"VERY interesting. In addition to being a memory, it could also be a symbolic birth--my birth as an adult or independent person.
> "Now the fireman who helped me has transformed in an object of interest and maybe desire. I'm a big girl and give in to my feelings of sensual attraction.
"Yes--attraction to the opposite sex could be symbolic of feelings that happen to an adult. Or rather, the desire to pair or couple with him.
> "I'm asking myself if I'm really ready to make a jewel (child) with this man. Social conventions tell me that a good person should have children, but I'm considering all the options (filling out applications.)
"LOL! Having you been peeking into my life? I am almost 36 and I don't have children and I'm not married. Thoughts about children have crossed my mind more frequently than they had when I was in my early and mid twenties. And the thought about "considering all the options" seems to be the response that I have to those thoughts. I've also had thoughts about settling down, but am not sure how well my career will fare if I decide to go domestic. :) I have strong feelings about raising children and want to give them all the attention that they need and deserve. I feel that if I did have a child, that my career would definitely have to take a backseat, if not disappear all together.
> "If I want to go through with everyone's desire for me to be a parent, I have to swim with the sharks, in an unsafe pool where other people seem to have found their destiny.
"Yes, I do feel a little pressured by traditional views. I'm not sure that being a Mom is exactly what I want, though. I don't feel like a "traditional" person, and am not sure that I would be completely happy living traditionally--that I have other work to do in my life still.
> "I may want to investigate the real connection that I have to Earth.
"Interesting thought. I do often feel that I have some work that I have been born to do here (on the planet) that doesn't fit in with the more "traditional" views. But I'm still a little confused about what exactly that is. :)
> "My inner feminine calls me to trust my intuition and get connected to water and Earth."
Good advice.> "In my dream, all four elements of esoteric alchemy are present: Water, Earth, Air and Fire (firemen). I can breathe under water, I have passed a very difficult test and now I'm able to exist in a condition that would have not been possible before, or I'm returning to my condition of fetus.
"Perhaps it is in this state that I will "remember" what it is I was sent here to do. . .> "The girl in the pool symbolizes my reckless self, feeding the sharks instead of keeping them away. Is it something in my diet, smoke, alchool that are endangering my life?
"I do smoke. It could be this. In the past months, I've cut out a lot of unhealthy habits. I've tried to quit smoking, but was unsuccessful. Perhaps it refers to this. And I do find that I smoke more often when I'm feeling emotional, so perhaps that's the connection with water.
> "Moreover, the rope I'm hanging on may represent a dangerous lifestyle choice I have made that may threaten my life.
"Perhaps smoking, worrying, being a control freak--all of it together.
Thank you VERY much Astra, and no, I wasn't worried about what you wrote. Thank you for writing it. You seem like an extremely intuitive person.
Sincerely,Jennifer
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End Session
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You're also welcome to try out this dreamwork process in your own online groups.
Read more about the process in John Herbert's research paper comparing face to face groups with online groups:
http://users.aol.com/john0417/HuSci/Greet.html1
A brief history of online dream sharing by Richard C. Wilkerson
and Dr. Herbert can be found here: http://www.dreamgate.com/dream/articles_rcw/ed2-6jh.htm
Also see Richard's article, "A Short History on the Rise of Dream Sharing in Cyberspace," in the October, 1998 issue of Electric Dreams Magazine (the same issue includes the "Coins of Life" DreamWheel transcript from that year): http://www.dreamgate.com/dream/ed-backissues/ed5-9.txt
Phyllis Howing, DreamWheel moderator
Richard Wilkerson, DreamWheel founder
1. historical link inactive December 2101
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