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The Founding of the alt.dreams Usenet Newsgroup: Initial Proposals and Configuration

Richard Catlett Wilkerson


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  Wilkerson, Richard Catlett (2002 Feb). The Founding of the alt.dreams Usenet Newsgroup: Initial Proposals and Configuration. Electric Dreams  9(2).




Included below are the initial posts by Jack Campin on May 9th, 1990 suggesting the initialization of a new Usenet Newsgroups to study dreams and replies. This suggestion would eventually become the well-known alt.dreams, which has also spawned a half dozen other dream related newsgroups.

I also located a post by Kyle Jones, which appears to be person who went ahead and initialized the dream group from a technical standpoint.

If you are not familiar with Usenet newsgroups, I have also included a brief description and history. The Electric Dreams community was started by individuals who found one another on Usenet in 1994, and so continues as part of the heritage of that newsgroup.

Unlike e mail, which is usually one to one, or Mail Lists which are one-to-many, Usenet is many to many. This is *not* live or real time chat, but posts and response to posts (creating "threads") left over hours, days and weeks. Before the WWW they were the bulletin boards of Cyberspace. They aren't called bulletin boards because that was the name used for call up by modem/phone boards on single computers "bulletin boards" which were popular for years before the general public could access the Net (usually abbreviated BBs). Though connected and integrated with the Net, Usenet is not technically part of Internet. There are thousands of bulletin boards, each with different topics of discussion. In the beginning, each newsgroup tried to maintain a FAQ file, or a Frequently Asked Questions file, which I suggest you read before posting questions. The FAQ, when available, gives you an idea of the most asked questions and the flow of the newsgroup.

The service is usually delivered through whomever you use to connect to the Internet, such as AOL or your local dial-up, DSL or Cable modem company. They may not always carry all of the newsgroups as some are notorious and questionable. To connect, ask your ISP for the newsgroups address and connection information, and use this information in a Newsgroup Reader program, such as Free Agent. Also, most web browsers now also have a News capability. After you add your connection information, you will need to download the full list of newsgroups your ISP is making available. Then you can "subscribe" to the ones that you want to read or to post messages.

Usenet History

In 1979, two graduate students at Duke University in North Carolina, Tom Truscott and Jim Ellis, came up with the idea of using a Unix system developed to exchange information over phone line. Along with Steve Bellovin, a graduate student at the University of North Carolina and Steve Daniel, they wrote conferencing software and linked together computers at Duke and UNC (Fraase, 1994, The Guide to the Information Highway).

The original program was meant to handle only a few articles each day, but by 1981, a graduate student at Berkeley, Mark Horton and a nearby high school student, Matt Glickman, had released a new version that added more features and was able to handle larger volumes of postings.

Today, Usenet connects tens of thousands of sites around the world with more than 3,000 Newsgroups and tens of thousands of readers.


Dreams and Newsgroups

The messages, if unattended, will only stay up a few days or weeks. The level of discussion fluctuates quite a bit. Most dream concerned individuals I've talked with on the Net find the newsgroup discussions flat and disappointing and have left them to go on and start other forms of Net interaction.

The Newsgroups are very useful for dream sharing in two ways. The first is the traditional use as a bulletin board. Dreamers can post requests for a dream group to start and those interested can contact the person who will be moderating the group. Also, moderated groups can take place directly on these boards, especially when the participants are careful to join with a pen name so the group is anonymous.

Now that there are privately owned bulletin boards available on many sites on the World Wide Web, the Newsgroups are not the only way post dreams. However, the Usenet continues to be a major spot to visit for college students and people with special interests.

The Usenet Newsgroups that focus on dreams are

alt.dream
alt.dreams.lucid
alt.dream.castaneda
alt.dreams.lucid.entities
alt.dreams.mythic
alt.dreams.prophetic
alt.dreams.recurring
alt.dreams.sexual
alt.dreams.edgar-cayce
alt.dreams.tolec
alt.dreams.impero.nascosto
alt.newage.dreamwork

But don't stop here! There are many related boards that can facilitate creative dreamwork, such as alt.mythology, alt.psychology.jung, alt.paranormal and more.

In 1991, while doing graduate research on Internet Dream Sharing, John Campbell located Jack Campin and asked him why he started alt.dreams. Here is Jack's Reply:

======================================

From: Jack Campin <uunet!cs.glasgow.ac.uk!jack>
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 91 12:00:11 GMT
To: cdp!jherbert
Subject: Re: Need info about alt.dreams
Newsgroups: alt.dreams
Organization: COMANDOS Project, Glesga Yoonie, No Mean City

I suggested it. The idea came from surrealism: to provide a window onto what we all really feel about the present age by revealing thought processes that can't be censored as easily as conscious ones. It hasn't done that as well as I hoped (too much paranormal crap) but I'm reasonably happy with the result.
I don't know who actually posted the newgroup message; I'd like to know if you find out.
best wishes - jack

Jack Campin Computing Science Department, Glasgow University,
17 Lilybank Gardens, Glasgow G12 8QQ, Scotland
041 339 8855 x6854 work
041 556 1878 home
JANET: jack@cs.glasgow.ac.uk
BANG!net: via mcsun and ukc
FAX: 041 330 4913
INTERNET: via nsfnet-relay.ac.uk
BITNET: via UKACRL
UUCP: jack@glasgow.uucp

======================================
But what was Jack's initial proposal? I did a little research on the new Google Usenet research engine (they acquired all the archives from Deja news.com ) and found the initial post and replies:

1 Jack Campin 09 May 1990
|-2 John S. Price 09 May 1990
| \-3 Michael Richardson 15 May 1990
| \-4 Cornell Kinderknecht 17 May 1990
|-5 Peter M. Ullman 10 May 1990
|-6 Mary Hartman Ichael 11 May 1990
|-7 a.e.mossberg 11 May 1990
| |-8 Christopher Pettus 11 May 1990
| \-9 Jack Campin 12 May 1990
| \-10 Chris Allen 14 May 1990
\-11 Guven Guzeldere 11 May 1990
\-12 John M. Blasik 18 May 1990
13 crsp_bonnie@gsbacd.uchicago.edu 14 May 1990


================================================

From: Jack Campin (jack@cs.glasgow.ac.uk)
Subject: anyone for alt.dreams?
Newsgroups: alt.config, alt.activism, sci.psychology, alt.sex, rec.arts.misc, news.groups, soc.culture.misc
View this article only
Date: 1990-05-09 16:25:21 PST

Anyone else interested in a group for people to post dreams to? By which I mean what goes on in your head at night, and not the "I have a dream..." variety or literary imitations. No analysis, either; maybe an alt.dreams.d group would be the place for that.

(Being a suggestion from me, there is of course a political hidden agenda. My interest in this is the surrealist one; that they say something about the repressed fears and desires of our time that you can't find out from opinion polls and other pseudo-rational approaches. Even wet dreams can say something about the capitalist world system. But don't feel you'd have to agree with me to post to it.)

I doubt if I could create an alt group from the UK even if I knew how, so someone else will have to pick this one up. Alt seems the only option, though; the thought of spending months arguing about the appropriate place for it in [sci|rec|soc|talk] doesn't appeal very much.

[ followups have been directed to alt.config ]

--
-- Jack Campin Computing Science Department, Glasgow University, 17 Lilybank Gardens, Glasgow G12 8QQ, Scotland 041 339 8855 x6044 work 041 556 1878 home JANET: jack@cs.glasgow.ac.uk BANG!net: via mcvax and ukc FAX: 041 330 4913 INTERNET: via nsfnet-relay.ac.uk BITNET: via UKACRL UUCP: jack@glasgow.uucp

Message 2 in thread
From: John S. Price (john@stat.tamu.edu)
Subject: Re: anyone for alt.dreams?
Newsgroups: alt.config
View this article only
Date: 1990-05-09 23:44:27 PST

In article <5157@vanuata.cs.glasgow.ac.uk> jack@cs.glasgow.ac.uk (Jack Campin) writes: >Anyone else interested in a group for people to post dreams to? By which I >mean what goes on in your head at night, and not the "I have a dream..." >variety or literary imitations. No analysis, either; maybe an alt.dreams.d >group would be the place for that.
>
>--
>-- Jack Campin Computing Science Department, Glasgow University, 17 Lilybank

I also would like to see this group created. I could care less where, and the alt group seems to be the easiest place to get one created.

The group could be a place where people could post their dreams. It would also probably digress into a discussion of the dreams, too, but that wouldn't be too bad. Dreams and their meanings has been an interest to me.
I support the creation of alt.dreams.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
John Price | It infuriates me to be wrong
john@stat.tamu.edu | when I know I'm right....
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Message 3 in thread
From: Michael Richardson (michael@fts1.uucp)
Subject: Re: anyone for alt.dreams?
Newsgroups: alt.config
View this article only
Date: 1990-05-15 11:58:26 PST

In article <5283@helios.TAMU.EDU> john@stat.tamu.edu (John S. Price) writes:
>In article <5157@vanuata.cs.glasgow.ac.uk> jack@cs.glasgow.ac.uk (Jack Campin) writes:
>>variety or literary imitations. No analysis, either; maybe an alt.dreams.d
>would also probably digress into a discussion of the dreams, too,

Has the group and group.d thing ever actually been tried? (Do any mailers support automatically setting the Followup-To: line to another group based on active file contents or something? I suppose hacking inews (the shell script) to treat posting to group with a References: line as posting to group.d)

I too, would like to see alt.dreams and alt.dreams.d

--
:!mcr!: | Tellement de lettres, si peu de temps. Michael Richardson | If Meech passes, no one will understand that. Play: mcr@julie.UUCP Work: michael@fts1.UUCP Fido: 1:163/109.10 1:163/138 Amiga----^ - Pay attention only to _MY_ opinions. - ^--Amiga--^

Message 4 in thread
From: Cornell Kinderknecht (cornell1@matt.ksu.ksu.edu)
Subject: Re: anyone for alt.dreams?
Newsgroups: alt.config
View this article only
Date: 1990-05-17 11:10:08 PST

I'd like to see alt.dreams also.

Message 5 in thread
From: Peter M. Ullman (pmullman@phoenix.Princeton.EDU)
Subject: Re: anyone for alt.dreams?
Newsgroups: alt.config
View this article only
Date: 1990-05-10 00:45:56 PST

In article <5157@vanuata.cs.glasgow.ac.uk> jack@cs.glasgow.ac.uk (Jack Campin) writes:

I like the idea of alt.dreams. I've had some good ones that I've even written up as short stories, and I think I'd enjoy doing this very much.

--
----------------------------------------------------------------------
| Peter M. Ullman INTERNET: pmullman@phoenix.Princeton.EDU |
| Princeton University UUCP: ...!rutgers!princeton!phoenix!pmullman |
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message 6 in thread
From: Mary Hartman Ichael (michael@csseq.tamu.edu)
Subject: Re: anyone for alt.dreams?
Newsgroups: alt.config
View this article only
Date: 1990-05-11 05:17:00 PST

Just to get another opinion in, I am also
highly interested in an alt.dreams... perhaps
the best idea I've heard since alt.pee.wee.herman ... :-)
;-)

Hope this vote counts twice...

/* - michael
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Mary Hartman Ichael, michael@csseq.tamu.edu
Always, remember love. Lucifer Donovan, michael@stat.tamu.edu
(c) Michael D. Denison, mdd4783@tamvenus.BITNET
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-==-

*/

Message 7 in thread
From: a.e.mossberg (aem@mthvax.cs.miami.edu)
Subject: Re: anyone for alt.dreams?
Newsgroups: alt.config
View this article only
Date: 1990-05-11 05:44:48 PST

In <5157@vanuata.cs.glasgow.ac.uk> jack@cs.glasgow.ac.uk (Jack Campin) writes:
>Anyone else interested in a group for people to post dreams to? By which I >mean what goes on in your head at night, and not the "I have a dream..." >variety or literary imitations. No analysis, either; maybe an alt.dreams.d >group would be the place for that.
>I doubt if I could create an alt group from the UK even if I knew how, so >someone else will have to pick this one up. Alt seems the only option, >though; the thought of spending months arguing about the appropriate place >for it in [sci|rec|soc|talk] doesn't appeal very much.

I think it would be a good idea, but would european usenetters get alt.dreams if it were created here? Other possible names would be:
sci.psychology.dreams
rec.dreaming
soc.transculture.dreams
talk.dreams
et cetera, ad nauseum

But alt.dreams would be the best choice, as Jack mentions above.

aem

--
a.e.mossberg / aem@mthvax.cs.miami.edu / aem@umiami.BITNET / Pahayokee Bioregion
America is a stronger nation for the ACLU's uncompromising effort. Jack Kennedy

Message 8 in thread
From: Christopher Pettus (cep@Apple.COM)
Subject: Re: anyone for alt.dreams?
Newsgroups: alt.config
View this article only
Date: 1990-05-11 05:50:35 PST
In article <1990May10.154319.5795@mthvax.cs.miami.edu>
aem@Mthvax.CS.Miami.Edu writes:
>I think it would be a good idea, but would european usenetters get
>alt.dreams if it were created here? Other possible names would be:
>
>sci.psychology.dreams
>rec.dreaming
>soc.transculture.dreams
>talk.dreams
>et cetera, ad nauseum

Let's not reopen the old, tired, "xxx.* makes sense but has terrible distribution, so let's put it in yyy.* instead" debate. My ears are still ringing from the last one of those. In any event, I just resubscribed to news.groups after a protracted vacation, and found it worse than alt.flame for signal-to-noise ratio ...

I think a consensus has been reached about alt.dreams; who volunteers to do the newgroup?
--
Christopher Pettus, Network Connectivity Development, Apple Computer, Inc.
MS 35-K -- 408/974-0004 -- cep@apple.com -- sun!apple!cep -- link PETTUS.C

Message 9 in thread
From: Jack Campin (jack@cs.glasgow.ac.uk)
Subject: Re: anyone for alt.dreams?
Newsgroups: alt.config
View this article only
Date: 1990-05-12 22:26:44 PST

aem@Mthvax.CS.Miami.Edu wrote:

> I think it would be a good idea, but would european usenetters get
> alt.dreams if it were created here?

Yes - we get all the alt groups except the sex and drugs ones, which are blocked by the management at ukc.ac.uk.

--
-- Jack Campin Computing Science Department, Glasgow University, 17 Lilybank
Gardens, Glasgow G12 8QQ, Scotland 041 339 8855 x6044 work 041 556 1878 home
JANET: jack@cs.glasgow.ac.uk BANG!net: via mcvax and ukc FAX: 041 330 4913
INTERNET: via nsfnet-relay.ac.uk BITNET: via UKACRL UUCP: jack@glasgow.uucp

Message 10 in thread
From: Chris Allen (chris@tharr.UUCP)
Subject: Re: anyone for alt.dreams?
Newsgroups: alt.config
View this article only
Date: 1990-05-14 07:18:32 PST
In article <5184@vanuata.cs.glasgow.ac.uk> jack@cs.glasgow.ac.uk (Jack Campin) writes:
>
>Yes - we get all the alt groups except the sex and drugs ones, which are
>blocked by the management at ukc.ac.uk.

This is not true - ukc would only do this if requested by a site they were feeding. I have always had a full set of newsgroups from them.
chris.

-- chris@tharr.uucp ..!ukc!axion!tharr!chris
Disclaimer: The views expressed above are those of my employer..

<-- tharr public access to Usenet in the UK 0234 261804 -->
From: Guven Guzeldere (guven@portia.Stanford.EDU)
Subject: Re: anyone for alt.dreams?
Newsgroups: alt.config
View this article only
Date: 1990-05-11 23:41:02 PST

I would like to second your suggestion on the creation of a newsgroup on dreams. Although my interest in dreams is centered around dream physiology and dreaming as a cognitive process rather than dream content per se, and hence different from your primary interest, I think there would be enough room in such a newsgroup for discussing dreams in many aspects.
-GG

PS I had originally thought of a possible sci.psychology.dreams newsgroup, but have no objections to alt.dreams, either.

Message 12 in thread
From: John M. Blasik (john@mintaka.mlb.semi.harris.com)
Subject: Re: anyone for alt.dreams?
Newsgroups: alt.config
View this article only
Date: 1990-05-18 08:48:47 PST
I'd like to see this.
Can we also have alt.dreams.wet too?

Message 13 in thread
From: crsp_bonnie@gsbacd.uchicago.edu (crsp_bonnie@gsbacd.uchicago.edu)
Subject: RE: anyone for alt.dreams?
Newsgroups: alt.config
View this article only
Date: 1990-05-14 09:28:02 PST

I wish to cast a vote in support of alt.dreams. I remember dreams every night and often have some good ones. However, I don't know how to get a group started, either.

Can someone else help?

Bonnie J. Black
====================================
http://tinyurl.com/u7yd

=====================================

Finally this appears to be the technical post from the alt.config newsgroup, May 18, 1990 to turn on the lights for alt.dreams :

=====================================
From: Kyle Jones (kjones@talos.pm.com)
Subject: alt.dreams is coming shortly
Newsgroups: alt.config
View: (This is the only article in this thread) | Original Format
Date: 1990-05-18 09:03:04 PST


OK, since no one has voiced any objection to alt.dreams, and I'm interested in the group myself, I'll be sending out a newgroup message for alt.dreams later today.

Past experience strongly indicates that .d groups do not work unless the parent group is moderated, so I will not create alt.dreams.d. Discussion is inevitable; readers can use their own discretion when deciding how to deal with it.

------------------------------------------------------------------
============================
REFERENCES

Fraase, 1994, Guide to the Internet.

Herbert, John (1996 October). The Founding of alt.dreams: Some Historical Cyber-dreaming Notes. Electric Dreams 3(9). Retrieved January 16 2002 from Electric Dreams on the World Wide Web: http://www.improverse.com/ed-articles/john_herbert_1996_founding_of_alt-dreams.htm

Google Search Engine for Usenet:
http://tinyurl.com/u7y8