>>>>>> For more information on the ethics statement used and how to start a dream groups online, please see the related articles. Also, this article is available online at
http://www.dreamgate.com/dream/library/blackhole.htm

The session ( September 18 - September 25, 2001) began, as always, with a post opening the question phase...

>>>>>>>>>>>> Transcript: "Black Hole" <<<<<<<<<<<<<

From: Moderator (Phyllis)

...We'll move on now to Savannah's dream, "Black Hole." This is what is known as a hypnogogic event, or a waking dream that occurs just as a person is falling asleep. It's also, as the title suggests, a nightmare.

Please glance over the instructions, scroll down to the dream, and then send your questions to the DreamWheel: dreamwheel@yahoogroups.com
......
Instructions:

Asking questions of the dreamer:
In this phase of the process you may ask the dreamer questions about the dream that may clarify the images of the dream. Do not ask questions that call for interpretations or that ask for material outside of the dream itself. The aim is to get to know the dream well AND also to allow for the maximum number of possible meanings being generated.

Clarifying Questions:
>Example: If this were the DREAM: "He turned around and grabbed Bill's jacket away from me."You can ask:
1. Questions about the details of any aspect of the dream AS they appeared IN the dream, for example:
a. (feeling details) How did you feel (in the dream) when he grabbed Bill's jacket?
b. (action details) Can you describe exactly how he grabbed Bill's jacket (eg where was he in relation to you; what movement did he make; what movement did you make)?
c. (content details) What kind of jacket was it? How were you holding the jacket? Where were you when he grabbed the jacket?

2. Questions about how any "real" people or places in the dream differed from their "real" presentation in daytime life, for example:
a. (who/what was recognisable) Who is the "he" that grabbed the jacket? Do you know him? Is the place where this happened to you recognisable?
b. (how does the "familiar" differ) Was Bill's jacket the same in the dream as in your daytime life? If not, how was it different in the dream?

3. Questions about what a person/object/action etc means for the dream ego. You can ask something like: "What would the dream (plus name) have thought of the person/object/action etc". This makes sure that the emphasis remains on the dream and the dream ego rather than switching it to the daytime ego (who may have very different views upon the matter!).

Dreamers in reply:
If and when you reply to the questions, do so only to clarify the dream. Try to avoid interpretations at this point. If it is not clear from the dream how to answer a question, simply say it was not clear.

[Moderator's note: While we instruct participants to restrict their questions to the format outlined above, which asks for clarification questions only, the moderator can allow other types of questions to be introduced into the process. The key here, we feel, is that the dreamer remain in full control of the process. As long as the dreamer understands that he/she can just as easily *not* answer a question, then variation on the guidelines seems to fit within our ethical framework (see Ethics Statement at: http://www.asdreams.org/idxaboutus.htm). Other times the moderator may "bring to everyone's attention" that a particular question has slipped from a question into an agenda or advice to the dreamer. Again, the key is whether the advice limits and imposes values on the dreamer, or, as is the case here, simply offers some alternatives the dreamer may or may not take. Obviously, too much of this would distract from the process.]
.......
Savannah's dream: "Black Hole"

I became real sleepy, so I went to bed. I have a sleep disorder, so whenever the sleep come down on me, I go for it. I closed my eyes, and I felt like I was asleep, but I can't say that I was asleep or awake. Almost immediately, I felt myself being pulled real fast into a black tunnel, which seems to have a few small white dots, like sand, scattered around, but not white enough to illuminate the darkness. The darkness is very scary. I am moving so fast, in spiraling motions. However, I am not going up or down, just moving across in a horizontal position. In hindsight, the darkness seems to be in space.

When I tried to stop myself and turn around, I felt something getting into my bed behind me. It presses against my back real hard, and moves on top of me. I was lying on my left side facing the door, towards the north side. I tried to move the cover back so I could get my legs out of the bed, but I felt it pressing down on me with more force. I tried very hard, but was unable to get up. The harder I fought it, the harder it pressed against me. It seems to be trying to get into my body, and some of it managed to get inside my face and moved around like it was a huge lump. I tried hard to force it out of me by waking up. When I couldn't wake up, I begin talking to this nameless force on top of me, and partly in side of me. I asked it to let me up. I didn't speak with my vocal voice, but I heard myself talking to this force. It did not answer, just kept trying to get inside me and force me through the tunnel.

I admit I was curious to find out what was on the other side of the black hole. However, my fear of it stopped me.

In summary, I was caught between the realities of being asleep and awake at the same time. I was very much aware of what was happening. But I was unable to pass from one to the other on my own. I don't know how much time passes, but it seem to be happening real fast. The only way I was able to come out of it was because, the telephone rings, then I got up immediately.

This dream like thing has happened twice this week, and over the years. The only way I get out of it, is, if someone wakes me or I hear a noise from the outside of my dream. This has caused me to have a lot of insomnia problems over the years. Because it's the only dream that I have a vivid memory of and can recant it in details.

I must add, that the dream has evolved. When I was younger, the entity, or whatever you call that force, use to come through the door and get on top of me & and proceeds to ride me. Now, it's right near my bed and always enter me from behind, and I am always lying on my side to the north.

Now there is more I don't mind sharing if someone can enlighten me about this things. I promise you, you won't be bored by my forthcoming.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
From: Antonius

Hi

How long have you had this dream?

Is there any special periods when this dream is more frequent?

Are there any other feelings than being scared of the darkness when you move through the darkness?

How does it feel when the force tries to get into you and how do you fight it, mentally or physically?

What is the feeling when some of it enters your head and how does your voice sounds when you speak to it?

A really scary dream, i really hope we will be able to help you understand it better.

Antonius
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
From: Savannah

Hi Antonius&

How long have you had this dream?

I have had this dream or some form of it since I was eleven years old. I am fifty-two now.

Is there any special periods when this dream is more frequent?

The first time I had some parts of this dream was when my mother died. I was eleven. After she was buried, I saw a ball of light in the corner of the ceiling, facing north, and that same night I had the dream for the first time. I can recall that it started coming more frequently when I would feel lost and alone, or forced to attend a relative deathwatch, which was seem to be something I have always done. I thought this might be the problem, but the dream does not come after every deathwatch. Sometimes when I have these dreams over a three or four day period, I write for days, things that I had no way of knowing or understanding. I would be afraid to read it at first because I can t believe I could write such things. Now as I have aged, I am much better at understanding what I write, and grow less and less afraid of the words.

Are there any other feelings than being scared of the darkness when you move through the darkness?

I feel a sense of lost at times, thinking that I have already been pulled into the darkness. I feel that there is something waiting for me in the darkness, but I can t tell what it is. Mostly it fears of what lies beyond, even though I am tempted to allow myself to be pulled in. Of late, during each dream I am pulled further into the hole, and the dream is changing and this make me more afraid.

How does it feel when the force tries to get into you and how do you fight it, mentally or physically?

I feel violated at first, like something is under my skin moving around without my permission. Then I feel removed from myself for a minute or two, or what I think is a minute or two. I feel like I am not me. I feel myself crying out loud, but make no sound, thinking within my mind that I must be possessed by a demon. I fight to wake up, but I am frozen in place. I know I am asleep, but it seem I am awake. Then I panic and try to mentally tear this force from within me. I mentally speak to whatever it is that is messing with me, pleading with it to leave. I talk to it calmly at first, and then I become angrier because it won t leave me. Then I beg to be awakened.

Physically I stay awake; therefore, I suffer with a bad sleep disorder. I am also a workaholic. There are times when I am awake for three or four days in a row. There have been times when I go a year or two without having this dream.

What is the feeling when some of it enters your head and how does your voice sounds when you speak to it?

I think in a language other then English, and it s as if I am communicating with someone or something, which I think is me. I hear the language in my head, and get the feeling that what or whoever is communicating understands it. There are times, after I have had these dreams, my right hand write something like shorthand, that is not shorthand because I don t know how to write it. I can t even understand what it means. I write pages and pages of it.

My voice is always pleading, first calmly, then in Angier tones. It seem that at times I hear my voice like an echo. Then I panic. The last time I did noticed that even when I was thinking in anger, my silent voice sounded calm.

Thank you for helping me.
Savannah
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
From: R.C.

Savannah,

What is it that you are afraid of happening? What do you think would happen if you went into the black hole? What about if you embraced the energy force? Does the vortex (or the energy force) have a masculine or a feminine feel?

R.C.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
From: Savannah

Greetings RC,

What is it that you are afraid of happening?

I don t really know all the answer to that RC. Sometime I am afraid it might be death, then at other times it seem worst then death. I don t see death as a bad thing, just another womb to be born from, but still I am afraid of this dearm.

What do you think would happen if you went into the black hole?

Something inside me tells me I will awaken, but to what I do not know. I think there is something waiting for me, but I can t discern what it is, and this makes me more afraid then anything to enter the vortex.

What about if you embraced the energy force?

I desire to embrace it, but only if I can understand what it is before I do it. I guess, like in most of us, the unknown factor in anything seem to scare me silly within this dream that is so real when it s happening. What scares me even more is that I can only awaken from it, if someone or thing outside of my dream make a noise or shake me.

Does the vortex (or the energy force) have a masculine or a feminine feel?

Now I have never given this any thought. Now that I think on it, the vortex just seem like a powerful force pulling me down into it, I don't see it as anything but that. The voices that speak and listens, on the other hand, when I am silently pleading to be released, have no gender at all. More like a hermaphrodite.

Thank you for responding RC.

Savannah
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
From: Pixie

Dear Savannah,
You said you would go further in explanation...Please take no offence to the questions I pose.

This entity; is it forcing you to submit in a sexual way? (you mentioned that it entered you from behind...).
Are you adverse to the idea that spiritual entities can attach themselves to the living, when they are lost, and cannot find their way to the next realm? If you are not, I encourage you to meditate, with intent, on removing these entities from your physical and spiritual bodies, so that you will be drained of your sleep no longer.
How do you feel in the dream, are you confused as to whether you are dreaming? If so, you may be having a waking dream, which is different from a dream that occurs in R>E>M>. The process is usually very fast, and the entire dream can take place in a matter of seconds, or a few minutes, and is usually the stage where, with directed intent, one can manipulate the dreamscape, and provoke an Out of the Body Experience.
I've had similar experiences to the one you've discribed. I was also isomniatic, and hadn't slept in over 48 hours, when the experience occured.
I know exactly what you are describing, with the spiral tunel experience, but not the entity...this I feel in my gut, is real, and you should really try to eliminate this entity from your aura. Just sit quietly, and imagine yourself as a tower of lights. There are many colours of lights, through your seven chakras, and beyond your crown chakra, there are five more. These five lights connect you with the universe. Ask the entity to leave you; visualize it leaving through all 12 chakras, (your seven body chakras, and your upper 5). Explain to the spirit that you will no longer tolerate it feeding on your energy.
Then, try to get a good long sleep.

Sincerely,
Pixie
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
From: Savannah

Greetings Pixie.

You said you would go further in explanation...Please take no offence to the questions I pose.

No offense taken. For indeed I desire some insight into this thing that has been on my back since I was eleven.

This entity; is it forcing you to submit in a sexual way? (You mentioned that it entered you from behind...).

Pixie, when this entity first appeared in my dreams, I felt it come to my bedroom door, and then I felt it walking towards my bed. Then it would enter me from the top if I were on my back, or sometimes from my side, through my arm. Now it is coming from behind me. When I used to feel the entity coming in the door I try to wake up, scream, or move and I am unable to. When I am sleeping with my husband, I try to get his attention, but can t. I can feel my breathing getting heavy and fast, it is almost like I am watching this and a part of it too. I think within my mind that my husband must hear me, but he doesn t. There were times that I would escape in the nix of time when he would moved in his sleep and his arm would land on my head or across my chest. Now the dreams come mostly when I am alone.

Although I have been sexually, physically, and spiritually abused during my childhood, and some part of my adult life, I know the different. I do not feel that the entity is trying to have sex with me. It crawls under my skin, and although I can feel it enter my whole body, it appears to only move under the skin of my face.

Are you adverse to the idea that spiritual entities can attach themselves to the living, when they are lost, and cannot find their way to the next realm? If you are not, I encourage you to meditate, with intent, on removing these entities from your physical and spiritual bodies, so that you will be drained of your sleep no longer.

The old folk, where I was born believes that what I am experiencing is a haunt or witch riding me. They have never told me what to do to get rid of it because, as a child, I was never allowed to speak in adult company, just listen. Once when I became older I told someone about these dreams, they said I was possessed by a demon and just needed to pray. I did pray, but to no avail. Of late, I have been having trouble staying grounded to who I am. I am writing in five voices now, speaking in three. Some I understand, some I don t. The older I get the worse it is becoming. My built up fear of it has caused me to lock myself away from society 90% of the time.

How do you feel in the dream, are you confused as to whether you are dreaming? If so, you may be having a waking dream, which is different from a dream that occurs in REM. The process is usually very fast, and the entire dream can take place in a matter of seconds, or a few minutes, and is usually the stage where,with directed intent, one can manipulate the dreamscape, and provoke an Out of the Body Experience.

I feel I am asleep; actually, I am sure of it. Still, I am very much aware of what is happening. In fact, my body freezes up and I am aware that I cannot move, but inside me I am thrashing somewhat. The dream seems to last a long time, but once something or someone awaken me, I look over at the clock and only minutes have passed. I notice that whenever I come out of this dream I am breathing real hard, and my face is wet, I am also tired and agitated. I can always recall almost every detail of the dream, because it very seldom changes. I work real hard on programming myself to stop thinking about it. When I was much younger; the dream came in the daytime, when I would grab a nap, and at night. Now it appears only at night, or late in the evening. Now, I have had lucid dreams. In the last two years, I have had three. I know the different. Nevertheless, I do see your point of view.

I've had similar experiences to the one you've described. I was also isomniatic, and hadn't slept in over 48 hours, when the experience occurred. I know exactly what you are describing, with the spiral tunnel experience, but not the entity...this I feel in my gut, is real, and you should really try to eliminate this entity from your aura. Just sit quietly, and imagine yourself as a tower of lights.There are many colours of lights, through your seven chakras, and beyond your crown chakra, there are five more. These five lights connect you with the universe. Ask the entity to leave you; visualize it leaving through all 12 chakras, (your seven body chakras, and your upper 5). Explain to the spirit that you will no longer tolerate it feeding on your energy. Then, try to get a good long sleep.

Thank you for your input and indeed I shall look into your suggestions. You see, the dream is why I can t sleep. Before I begin having it, I had no problem sleeping. I can recall, that before my twenty-fifth birthday, I could just about tell when the dream would come. Now I can't. The longest I have went without having one of these dreams is three years.

Peace
Savannah
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
From: Deena

Hello, Savannah,

First let me say, I'm not sure how I will be able to help you with this dream, it is so frightening to me, I don't know if I will be able to step into it fully. But I will do my best to get a sense of it and comment.

A few questions:

The force that enters you, you said in a reply to Antonius that lately you are being pulled further into the hole. Yet you describe at other points the force that is pushing you, pushing into you. Does this force, once attached within you then try to pull you into the vortex, or is the vortex a separate force?

Do you sense that the force entering you wants to take over you for some specific purpose, or does it simply want to get you into the vortex?

When, after the dream, you find yourself writing, channeling words and information you don't understand, do you feel this force within you at that time during the waking moment? Or is this something you do to get the energy out of you?

Have you ever tried not writing after? Refusing to pick up a pen for several days until the impulse passes?

Do you feel even the slightest attraction to this channeling of information that comes after? Or, if not now, did you at one time get something positive out of it or feel curious to know what it was all about? Say when you were younger, it might easily have seemed odd but fascinating, something that althought it frightened you, still attracted you on some level.

Which fear is greater, that the force will push/pull you into the vortex, or that it will take over you completely and you will lose sight of yourself?

Have you ever thought of showing your writings to someone who is expert in languages and different types of alphabets/writing to see if it is a real language rather than a kind of shorthand?

Whew, sorry, didn't mean to get carried away. I am trying so hard to understand to be able to help.

Deena
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
From: Q.T. Grrrl

Savannah - One thing really popped into my mind: When you are pleading for the entity to leave you, how does it react? It continues on, but is it menacing? Is it lonely? How does it "treat" you, in respect to not leaving?

Also, if I may follow along Pixie's path a little...I truly believe in spirits, both good and evil, walking among us. You mentioned that you have prayed, but to no avail - is there a clergy member or someone you could talk to about this? Does the entity seem familiar to you? In several of my dreams, I have met people and seen an unfamiliar face, but felt the presence of someone loved or known from my past, and even at times, felt the presence of someone or something that I don't know in waking life, but still feels familiar. This is, of course, a far cry from what you feel in your dreams, but I wonder if there is similarity?

Hope these questions will help - I'm looking forward to your response!!

Cheers,
Q.T. Grrrl :)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
From: Savannah

Hi Deena.

The force that enters you, you said in a reply to Antonius that lately you are being pulled further into the hole. Yet, you describe at other points the force that is pushing you, pushing into you. Does this force, once attached within you then try to pull you into the vortex, or is the vortex a separate force?

Yes. Actually, I do feel the sensation of first being pushed, then being pulled. I never gave much thought to it before, but I noticed it in the last dream. I thought this was new, and had meant to make notes of it. While I was being pushed, I felt the crawling under the skin of my face. Then as I was trying to plead with it to leave me, I felt like something started to pull me. I didn t get the sense that it was two different entities, but it was slightly different energies. The energy pulling had more power then what was pushing me.

Do you sense that the force entering you wants to take over you for some specific purpose, or does it simply want to get you into the vortex?

I never allow myself to think that, but yes I do sometimes. When such thoughts come to mind, I block them with my pleading. Fear consumes me during these dreams and I fight any way I can, especially closing my thoughts of to what my mind is trying to think, to wake up. I feel that if I listen I will lose the battle and go into the vortex.

When, after the dream, you find yourself writing, channeling words and information you don't understand, do you feel this force within you at that time during the waking moment? Or is this something you do to get the energy out of you?

I don t feel the force in me at the waking hour, but I feel the result or the effects of my fight with it. I am highly active even though I am tired from the dream, and very creative. Sometimes I have no control over writing and I sat at the computer for hours writing. A lot of it the writing is metaphysical to me in nature and the more I write the more I am beginning to understand what it is I am writing. But a lot of it is also about things I try not to remember about my life. Most of the things about my life or other folks life around me is written in prose or poetry.

The hand scribbling is different. It comes in spells, long after the dream, sometimes days, sometimes months. Usually I begin to scribble without noticing it. I become aware of it after I have done two or three pages of it. The scribbling comes about when I am under stress about simple things that I don t think should cause me stress. Yes, all the writing calms me down, even though I feel tired when I awaken from the dream, I feel refresh when I write something, anything.

Have you ever tried not writing after? Refusing to pick up a pen for several days until the impulse passes?

Yes, I have. But when I do go to sleep the dream comes back, then I am up for two or three days at a time afraid that it will come back again.

These days, I am writing something that scares me and fascinated me at the same time. I can t explain it and was going to put it on the Internet, with all the graphics that I ve created, and ask for help. The strange thing about this is, one of the graphic I created, when folded makes a perfect pyramid. It s wild and it has something to do with something called the 5th Element. It begun with the 4th Element, back in November, then when I mastered a slight understanding of what I was writing, remember I said slight, it quickly started me to writing about the 5th Element. Whenever I write something about it, it sucks my energy and I sleep for a couple of days.

Do you feel even the slightest attraction to this channeling of information that comes after? Or, if not now, did you at one time get something positive out of it or feel curious to know what it was all about? Say when you were younger, it might easily have seemed odd but fascinating, something that although it frightened you, still attracted you on some level.

I felt no attractions at first, but in 1992 a lot of that changed when I wrote something called In Search of the Master Dreamer. After reading what I had written, a few years later, I ran back home to ________ and all sort of things begin to happen.

You see I am a high school drop out. I had five children by the time I was twenty-two. I had no skills other then picking cotton, cleaning house and taking care of children, the basic. I tell you this so you will understand. When I was younger, I feared the dreams but not as much as I do now. Back then, after these dreams I would learn skills so fast that it amazed me. When the home computer became popular back in the early eighties, I got one, and don t ask me how, and mastered it without reading a book. Believe me when I say, I was just never that smart.

I am a shy person, still, there were times when I would watch myself speaking out on television, fighting for children and senior citizens, even had a small community newspaper. I knew this person doing all of this was not I. The longer the dream stayed away the more I return to my old shy self. No matter what project I took on from the influence of the dream, as the feelings from the dream died away, I would give up the projects, business, etc. and run away. These days I am hiding behind this computer hoping, that someone out there will help me understand, because I would like to begin to live, which is something I have never done.

So to sum it up, I think I used the dreams at first, when I saw the effect it had on me in my waking hours, to take care of my family and put my husband through college. In 1997, I gave up everything: money, house, etc. I have no material things that amount to anything. I did this in hopes that the dream would go away if it saw that I gave up what I had gained from it. Instead, the dreams are getting stronger and the writing is getting more complex. I am tired, I am scared, and as luck would have it, I have no more money to run away.

Which fear is greater, that the force will push/pull you into the vortex, or that it will take over you completely and you will lose sight of yourself?

That it will take me over and I will lose sight of myself or who I am. Even though I really have problem with this me, she is all I know.

Have you ever thought of showing your writings to someone who is expert in languages and different types of alphabets/writing to see if it is a real language rather than a kind of shorthand?

No. No way! I have only shown it to my husband and children, and they couldn t help but see it because it s been a way of life for us for a long time now. To me it s all scribbles, even though some of it is repetitive. But what are the chances of a nobody like me writing a language. No way. I would be called crazy and locked away!

Whew, sorry, didn't mean to get carried away. I am trying so hard to understand to be able to help.

Don t be sorry. I will be forthcoming because I desire some answers. I will hold nothing back that I can recall to receive this help. So, don t be sorry. I appreciate being able to comfortably talk about it. If I can understand the dream, maybe I can have a life for a change.

Peace,
Savannah
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
From: Savannah

Hi Q.T. Grrrl.

Savannah - One thing really popped into my mind: When you are pleading for the entity to leave you,how does it react? It continues on, but is it menacing? Is it lonely? How does it "treat" you, in respect to not leaving?

The crawling under my skin is somewhat menacing to me, cause it reminds me of a snake crawling under some leaves, with a hump. But as I think about it, the only thing it does is get inside of me and try to push/pull me into the vortex. I don t get the feeling that it s lonely, because I know that feeling. The entity never respond to me; it just has one purpose it seems to me and that is to get inside of me and make me fall down into what is pulling me. Yet there is no up or down in the vortex. The only way I escape is if the telephone ring or I hear a loud noise, or if someone come in and awaken me. I cannot escape it unless I hear something from outside of the dream, back in my reality. As for how it treats me, well with the exception of what it is trying to get me to do, I don t feel anything else. I won t even allow my mind to think on it. I am so consumed with fear that all I think about is waking up.

Also, if I may follow along Pixie's path a little...I truly believe in spirits, both good and evil, walking among us. You mentioned that you have prayed, but to no avail - is there a clergy member or someone you could talk to about this?

I used to go to church seven days a week and twice on Sundays. I saw a lot of evil in churches and I have attended most of them. I married a catholic. I have believed in god as I was taught, but as I grew older, I begin to asked questions that had no answers. Since then I have came to my own understanding about god/goddess or whatever one call the unknown entity. When I was young, I used to try to talk to clergies about this; even in my thirties, I tried. They would tell me a demon was inside of me, and I had to stop sinning. Sinning? What did my dreams have to do with sin? Since then, I have tried to work it out myself to no avail. I have even tried to speak with counselors about it, but they would seem to fear what I would tell them and soon, their case-load would be too full to keep me on. On the Internet, I have had better success in talking about it in bit and pieces.

Does the entity seem familiar to you?

No. It doesn t seem like no one I know. But when I first had the dream, at age eleven, after I saw the light when my mother died, I thought it was her, but I haven t had that feeling since.

In several of my dreams, I have met people and seen an unfamiliar face, but felt the presence of someone loved or known from my past, and even at times, felt the presence of someone or something that I don't know in waking life, but still feels familiar. This is, of course, a far cry from what you feel in your dreams, but I wonder if there is similarity? Hope these questions will help - I'm looking forward to your response!!

Thank you Q.T. Grrrl. I will be open and honest because it is my desire to understand what is happening. I have never tried as hard before to understand this. This might be a sign of growth on my part, maybe.

Peace,
Savannah
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
From: Moderator

If you have any other questions that will help Savannah *describe* her "Black Hole" experience without asking her to interpret the experience, send them now. We'll be moving on to the comment phase for this dream tomorrow.
~Phyllis
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
From: Rod

Hi Savannah,

I couldn't help remembering some of my own experience while I was reading your dream... I have a lot to say about it but for now I will restrict myself for questions (since it is the question phase).

I think others have made the most important question and now I will like to ask you about some of your answers....

"I mentally speak to whatever it is that is messing with me, pleading with it to leave. I talk to it calmly at first, and then I become angrier because it won´t leave me. Then I beg to be awakened."

Do you feel/think this entity ignores you? Is this entity pleased when you get angry?

"It seem that at times I hear my voice like an echo. Then I panic. The last time I did noticed that even when I was thinking in anger, my silent voice sounded calm."

Do you panic because of the echo? Does the echo sound in panic too? What does it say?

"I felt it come to my bedroom door, and then I felt it walking towards my bed. Then it would enter me from the top if I were on my back, or sometimes from my side, through my arm. Now it is coming from behind me."

It is interesting that the last part is a present tense. It looks like you re-live your dream when you talk about it.

"I didn't get the sense that it was two different entities, but it was slightly different energies. The energy pulling had more power then what was pushing me."

Other than power and direction, is there a qualitative difference in the energies?

"Fear consumes me during these dreams and I fight any way I can, especially closing my thoughts
of to what my mind is trying to think, to wake up. I feel that if I listen I will lose the battle and go into the vortex."

Is your mind a different entity than you? Does it play tricks to you?

"These days, I am writing something that scares me and fascinated me at the same time."

Are these feelings opossing like the energies that push/pull you?

"The crawling under my skin is somewhat menacing to me, cause it reminds me of a snake crawling under some leaves, with a hump. But as I think about it, the only thing it does is get inside of me and try to push/pull me into the vortex."

What's the color of the snake?

Sincerelly
rod
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From: Savannah

Greetings Rod:

"I mentally speak to whatever it is that is messing with me, pleading with it to leave. I talk to it calmly at first, and then I become angrier because it won t leave me. Then I beg to be awakened."

Do you feel/think this entity ignores you? Is this entity pleased when you get angry?

I would have to say yes, because no matter how I plead, it does not respond any different from what it always do. No matter how angry I get the entity s action does not change, in that, all it does is try to get me into the vortex.

"It seem that at times I hear my voice like an echo. Then I panic. The last time I did noticed that even when I was thinking in anger, my silent voice sounded calm."

Do you panic because of the echo? Does the echo sound in panic too? What does it say?

I panic because the echo is the same as my voice and it s going on even as I plead, it pleads. The echo sounds calm like my voice, but the pitch is higher and it sound like it s coming from the outside of me. This causes me to panic even more and fight harder to wake up.

"I felt it come to my bedroom door, and then I felt it walking towards my bed. Then it would enter me from the top if I were on my back, or sometimes from my side, through my arm. Now it is coming from behind me."

It is interesting that the last part is a present tense. It looks like you re-live your dream when you talk about it.
That could be grammatical, but you are right. The dream has been such a part of my life that I have to make real efforts to program myself not to think about. Talking like this to others about it does put me there in my waking hours. It s one of the reasons I am so candid with you about it. When I say the entity is coming behind me, I meant that it is now entering me from my backside.

"I didn t get the sense that it was two different entities, but it was slightly different energies. The energy pulling had more power then what was pushing me."

Other than power and direction, is there a qualitative difference in the energies?

I have never given this any thought, but in my younger days, I don t recall being pushed and pulled, just pushed. I begin to experience the push/pull sensations after my twenty-fifth birthday. The only other different is that the entity is already in the room with me, when it used to come to the door and walk up to my bed.

"Fear consumes me during these dreams and I fight any way I can, especially closing my thoughts of to what my mind istrying to think, to wake up. I feel that if I listen I will lose the battle and go into the vortex."

Is your mind a different entity than you? Does it play tricks to you?

When I am in this dream, my mind does seem to be different, because it tries to influence me to go into the vortex. I don t get the feeling it s playing tricks, because since day one, all the entity have ever done is consistently attempt to get me into the vortex. It has never spoken to me verbally or otherwise, unless you count the writing I am doing.

"These days, I am writing something that scares me and fascinated me at the same time."

Are these feelings opposing like the energies that push/pull you?

Yes.

"The crawling under my skin is somewhat menacing to me, cause it reminds me of a snake crawling under some leaves, with a hump. But as I think about it, the only thing it does is get inside of me and try to push/pull me into the vortex."

What's the color of the snake?

There is no snake, per say. However, when the entity is crawling under my face, it looks and feels like a snake is crawling. The only different is that I feel a lump rising up in my face every once and a while as it crawl around it. I must mention here that it has only crawled on the left side of my face. When it attempts to go to the right, something or someone wakes me up. I do, however, feel the entity throughout my whole body, but it only moves under the skin in my face.

I don't think I mention this, and no one asked, so let me say that within this dream I see everything that is happening to me. I see it and yet it is happening to me at the same time.

Peace
Savannah
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From: Moderator (opening comment phase)

Savannah's dream, "Black Hole," is intense and frightening. I'm sure all of us would like to help her understand and resolve the issues underlying her experience. However, by sticking with the "If this were my dream..." approach and not giving advice about what SHE ought to do, we both release the dreamer from a defensive position, allowing her intuition to work from its own source, AND we really do our OWN work regarding the entities and hobgoblins of our OWN souls. So please keep the DreamWheel instructions in mind as you make this dream your own.

Please glance over the instructions then scroll down to the dream, read it and send your comments to the DreamWheel at: dreamwheel@yahoogroups.com.
......
Comment Instructions:
In this part of the process, you may comment on the dream. While you are welcome to make any comments you wish, what we are teaching in this group is a non-defensive style developed by John Herbert (Montague Ullman stage II Variation) modified for email. This segment is the one in which each group member takes the dream as if it were his or her own and shares feelings and thoughts about the dream and what it might mean in each member's life situation.

1. You can comment on what ANY aspect of the dream means FOR YOU:
a. The feelings YOU have about any aspect of the dream or about the whole dream.
b. The metaphorical or symbolic meanings FOR YOU of any actions or images in the dream.
c. The relationship between any dream images and events and what that relationship means FOR YOU.
d. The relationship between all dream images and events as YOU see them (you can change the order of events and images and present them in the way you feel makes most sense to YOU).

2. In your comments make the dream your own:
a. At the beginning of all comments use something like: "If this were my dream..." This sets up the general subjective attitude and works as a reminder to the commentators that they are not telling the dreamer what they think the dream means for the dreamer, but rather what the dream might mean for themselves if they had had that dream.
b. To further this relationship to the dream write the commentary as if you were talking about your OWN dream happening NOW (use the first person singular and also present tense in your commentary):
>EXAMPLE: Dream: "I'm looking at my mother walking down a long hall towards an open window."
I might comment "In MY dream the nurturing mother has found a new way to escape ME." In my comment, it is "my mother", "my hallway" and"my dream". This may or may not provide insight to the initial dreamer, but it's surprising how often this non-defensive approach does lead to new insights for both the dreamer and the commentator.

Dreamer's Response:
At the end of the comment phase the dream is returned to its source and the dreamer can reply. The type of reply is entirely up to the dreamer - but some response helps both the commentators and the dreamer. It provides closure for the commentators and helps the dreamer to make what was learned in the process more firmly his/her own.
....
[Note: the dream is repeated here.]
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From: Deena

Well, Savannah,

This is certainly a complex dream situation, especially with it being repeated many times. I will admit I took Phyllis's warning to keep the dream as my own with some trepitude. I had started out that way, but soon found myself dissassociating from the dream, trying to not make it my own.

But I joined this group understanding the rules, so, I will give it a second run and see what I come up with. Here goes, off the top of my head. (Or maybe I should say, off the tips of my fingers!)

If this were my dream I would be, first of all, concerned with the fear it instills in me. I do not ever believe dreams are meant to harm us, but rather to help us. So, if I am feeling this great fear and resistence of this dream, perhaps I should go deeper into that resistence.

What is happening here? Something is trying to get into me, but what? I am being pushed and pulled into a vortex, I am afraid of what is on the other side.

Some have told me it is evil, a demon. But if that were so, would it not have harmed me in some way? But the results of this dream are not harmful, but rather positive in many ways. The dreams seem to trigger two types of events, one, a surge of writing and creativity, two, a period of increased activity in which I not only function but have many accomplishments. These accomplishments feel alien to me, as if they do not belong to me. Just as the writings seem to come from outside of me. But is that the case?

These triggered events are positive things! They are not evil, they are creative and positive in many ways. The writing... some of it makes no sense to me, and that frightens me. I have heard of channeling, I wonder if I may be somehow sensitive to and picking up on a kind of universal consciousness in some of the writing. This too frightens me, because it seems so weird, I am afraid of what others might say.

But not all of the writing is like this. Other writing is more personal, poems and prose about me, yet it doesn't seem to come from me either. But I know that many creative people often go into this kind of "zone" where the writing or the art seems to take over. What is it about fiction writers who say that their characters took over the story and told them where to go? Perhaps this is just a very creative side of me taking over at these times.

A creative side that is triggered somehow by the dream.

I have to ask myself if I may be in fact a very creative person, if these writings and other accomplishments do indeed come from me. Perhaps these were things that were supressed in me as I grew up. Aspects of my own self that I was unable to express when I was young. But the dream, somehow it awakens this in me. Why?

Something, a force, coming into me. Is that force none other than my Self? Pushing and pulling me to the vortex. Pushing into me, trying to integrate this creative self with the shy self I know. Pushing and pulling. The images make me think of a birth tunnel. A baby being born, how difficult it must be, how frightening, the trip through the birth canal, the pushing and pulling sensations of labor. This is what the dream feels like to me.

My true self, not a monster, just the me that was meant to be, the creative authoritive, talented person that the shy me has denied all these years. She, no, I am trying to merge with myself, trying to become whole, taking myself through the vortex to be born anew, whole and alive.

Whew!

Okay, Savannah. I don't know if this helps you, but perhaps something there will ring true for you. I think many of us have multiple aspects of who we are that find expression in different parts of our life. But sometimes life and circumstance can cause us, for whatever reason, to supress some of the more sensitive (and often more creative) aspects of our personality. I have seen this in myself and in others. But eventually we learn to accept all parts of our self. We learn to become whole.

For some it may happen suddenly, for others it is a life long voyage. But it's never too late to awaken.

Blessings,
Deena
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From: Kayla

Hi Savannah,

If this were my dream, I would ask myself how this very scary dream has come to me in the service of my healing and wholeness. I remember that a nightmare is the way my psyche tries to get my attention. A part of my psyche is hurting and screaming for my attention and wants me to look at something in my life that I am simply too afraid to face.

I see the whirling dark vortex as a powerful wind of the spirit drawing me in, forcing me to look inward, deeper and deeper within myself, to look at the darkness that sucks away my energy. In waking life, dark vortexes are tornadoes that force me underground, to the basement. As a metaphor, I see the dark vortex forcing me to the basement of my psyche in order to put a face on what lurks there. I am too afraid to find out.

The faceless darkness paralyzes me and keeps me from moving, from living, from connecting with those I love. It sneaks up on me. I try to get rid of it, to fight it off. But its there. Just underneath my skin. I feel powerless. This darkness wants me to go deeper, to jump into the black hole that sucks away all my energy, to face the paralyzing darkness. It wants me to feel it so it makes my skin crawl. But I am too afraid to feel it. I don't want to feel it. I am too afraid to face it.

Only an outside distraction such as a phone ringing, or noise, releases me from the power of this force. What is this darkness I am so afraid to look at? Perhaps it is my memories of childhood abuse and emotional neglect, or other wounds that I have experienced in life, things I would rather not look at very closely because it feels too painful. Or perhaps it is a part of myself that I really don't like, such as my rage and natural aggression, I don't like to feel angry. Or maybe it is the call of my deeply wounded inner child who is lost in the darkness of her pain and wants me to find her in the black hole in which she is buried. I don't want to feel her grief. While I am too afraid to look at this darkness, to put a face on it, to feel it, I know that only by looking directly into the face of my darkness will I ultimately experience healing and light. It holds the key to my wholeness. Without the shadows my life would be flat, without form, and without contour. The shadows are as important as the light.

Thank you for your willingness to share this scary and powerful dream!

Kayla
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From Jell

Dear Savannah,

As my dream, I am afraid to sleep anyway. but when I do, just as I am about to really drift off, I feel the DREAD come upon me. I have felt it since I was a girl. I know I cannot control it, that it will have its way with me.

It is so horrible, this dark thing in the night, who is it? Who would attack me in this way? It enters my face, and crawls under my skin. I feel intense disgust. And fear, almost panic. I beg it to leave me, but it will not. there is nothing i can do. I am like a small child being sexually abused, and I can do nothing but go to another place in my mind. But there is no other place.

Another place opens up, it is a vortex of whirling darkness. I don't want to go THERE! It is so frightening and horrible to be dragged, and there is no control. But there is a part of me that does want to go there. It's not just curiosity, its the realization that anyplace, absolutely ANYPLACE might be better than enduring this attack on me. I'm just a little girl, I can try to be strong, but I'm not that strong, and I've just lost my mother. I am pushed and pulled, both within and without, but no matter what I think, or plead, or pray, or scream, no one comes to my aid, and there is no help for me! WHY DOESN'T SOMEONE COME TO HELP ME?! I remember that when I was a child, my mother protected me. She is gone now. No one will ever protect me like she did. Instead, I am attacked, over and over again, in the night, and there is no help coming.

Whoever is doing this to me opens my mouth wide and violates me inside my mouth, my face, my being. I feel it like a snake under my skin and I can't do anything; I try to scream but I cannot. I know I am awake, but wish I were not; I know I am asleep but wish I were not. There is NOTHING I can do to prevent this, and it happens again, and again, and again. Even if my mind can forget this, my body never can, and this evil, evil attacker does not listen to any of my screams, prayers, or begging. I feel so alone, I think, if my mother were here she would protect me, but I know that's not going to happen, this time at least, so I fight the vortex. This is the dark hole, the point of no return, and thank goodness, I can at least keep myself from being sucked into its nothingness. Because that is, to me, what it is: nothingness, the refuge from painful existence.

I am so angry, so outraged, I keep scribbling and scribbling and scribbling but there are no words for this kind of violation to a little girl. My poor little girl, inside me all the time, does not know how to write good english, or even write in cursive. She only knows how to scribble her outrage, and pour it out and out and out.

Sorry, Savannah, I went a bit further into this than I meant to. It has helped me too to explore this on your behalf, but I must stop now. Thank you so much for your honesty, and I hope that if I have said things that are not true for you you will remember I was feeling it as "my dream." May many blessings shower you, brave soul. Jell
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
From: Antonius

If this were my dream i would try to really analyze the fear feeling. Of course thats easier said than done, especially when its the kind of crippling fear that totally freezes you but fear can never been overcome by turning away from it. And i know that no fear that im aware of can ever cripple me because my mind can always overcome it even if it may be a lifelong battle. Maybe i cant see what this tunnel is because of the fear that clouds my mind?

The moving through the black tunnel makes me think of moving to something completly new in a spiritual way, some sort of awareness, the feeling of being reborn. And of course its scary because i dont know what awaits me on the other side or do i? Maybe some part of me does know whats on the other side because i get the feeling that i will awaken but im really afraid of the changes that may come if i complete the journey.

Then there is this strange force trying to get into me and take me over. I dont really think its evil or some sort of spirit even if i do believe in spirits, i think its a part of myself. Maybe some part of myself that i have totally shut out from me and now it try to force itself on me. Not a very tactfull way i have to admit but maybe its the only way it can make me aware of its existance.

Then it try to force me through this tunnel and i am a little curious but mostly frightened. Of course it scares me, it feels like i have no control over where i am heading. And it doesn't help to talk to it or beg it or even be angry at it because the last thing it wants is to leave me.

Then there is these strange writings that comes from some part thats not me. What scares me most is not where they come from, it is that others will think im crazy. That i pick up this information from some other source, whenever it is some sort of universal consciousness or some other part of myself, doesn't really scares me. Maybe this tunnel is a connection with that thing? Maybe that force somehow wants to force me though this tunnel and into contact with the same source that gives the information that appears in the writings? Maybe that source is some higher part of myself?

Antonius
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From: RC

Savannah, If this were my dream, and I had been having it on and off since I was a child, and it's still scaring me, I would approach it this way...

Two things that I remember very clearly from studying Jeremy Taylor's writings... One, is that "dreams come to us in the service of health and wholeness." There is nothing "bad" about dreams; they are just trying to get my attention so that they may teach me and help me become whole and healthy. Two, Even if a dream is bringing up information that is scary to me, I need to trust that I am indeed ready to learn what it has to teach me. If I was not ready to learn, I simply would not remember the dream. So the fact that I am now sharing it in a community, is a signal that I am ready to deal with it and learn from it.

That said, this is what I think the dream is about (were it my dream)...

There is something that happened to me when I was a child one time (or many times), just about when I was ready to fall asleep. It was a terrible, scary thing that happened, and it violated me. Ever since then, I have associated falling asleep with being violated.

As long as I am fighting and afraid in this dream, I will be fighting and afraid in waking life too. As scary as it may seem, I think that it is time to let go of the resistance, and let the darkness overcome me. I have been fighting it all of my life.

If it were my dream, I would consciously decide, before attempting to sleep, that I am willing to go into the dream, and take it to the next scene... to go into the vortex; to allow the force to enter me, and see what it has to teach me. Scary? Definitely. But what is worse? Being scared at night? Or being scared all my life?

To take care of myself, though, I would do one of two things: Either, make sure that I do this on a weekend when I have time to recover and to write after awakening (and set an alarm to make sure that I do); Or, arrange to have a loving/supportive friend call and awaken me and listen to me as I tell her/him what I have learned.

Good luck Savannah, I hope that you will keep in touch and let us know what learning you find - even if it is many months from now. (And if you would like, I would be willing to be the person/witness on the other end of the telephone for you).

RC
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From: Susan

Hi Savannah,

Thanks for presenting your dream. I hope you will be able to gain some resolution or transformation of it.

When I first read your dream, I thought about it from a scientific point of view. When people fall asleep, they usually lose consciousness, then their body becomes paralyzed. When they dream, they usually can not move their body. Before they awake, they regain control over their movements. But sometimes people gain consciousness before they are able to move their body again. This has only happened to me once or twice, and I found that to be very scary. I just let it go and I was able to get my movement back again. Anyway, I think I'd like to read more about this subject in the sleep disorders literature to see how it is explained and treated.

When I process the dream, I think about several things:

Ambivalence about death. Wanting to be with relatives who have passed over verses fear of death/unknown. Letting go (i.e. all the pain, fear, anger, etc. of my life) verses safety/survival instincts that protect me from others and myself.

There's a whole psychology based upon attachment, about how we make and break bonds. How we spend our entire lives dealing with loss (i.e. loss of parents, loss of youth, loss of innocence, loss of opportunities, loss of health, etc., and ultimately the loss of our lives).

Some individuals have discussed spirits and demons. I don't have any experience with that. But I think more about the shadow, parts of ourselves that we disown or fail to recognize. I think there are strong emotions that are repressed, negative emotions like anger (for me) about situations where my needs for were not met and where it was not permissible to express my emotions.

I have not done much exploring via my dreams (because of fear?). I'm lucky if I remember them. But in real life, I am a bit of a sensation seeker. I've been to a water slide park where you get sucked through a waterfall into a black hole (a covered flume) on a single or double inner tube. Anyway, it was a thrill. A thrill I thought was relatively safe. So I did it again and again... And I thought about being reborn.... But if I was REALLY afraid, I would take someone else along with me.

Thanks again for your dream. I'm fascinated by the creativity that arises out of adversity. I think about the untapped potential in each of us.

Susan
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
From: Pixie

Dear Savannah,

I'm sorry my comments are so late, I've had a busy week.

In my dream, I am travelling through space, rapidly through a tunnel, in which I move horizontally. Because I am in my sleep body, I feel vulnerable, and I feel as though I have relinquished control to God, the universal powers, to something larger than me.
My Mother died, and I wonder where she is now. My religious education would lead me to believe that she was exhalted as one of heaven's finest. But there is an empty space in my life, and try as I might, through my
husband, my brothers and sister, and my own children, no one has given me that type of warmth and nurturing again. I've wished for some kind of psychic commuication with her, but when I've looked to the sky and called out her name; only the wind answers me.
I have given alot of thought to mortality. My mother's, other family members, and my own. I hear the stories people tell about the tunnel of death...but on the other side of this is the light of perfect love.
Why I don't reach the other side of the tunnel becomes real. It is not yet my time.
In my dream I feel the tunel represents two things. The void in my life where important people have been, and Death, asking me to accept and be aware of "him". If I imagine Death as being a person, like the "angel of death", and I try to make this in my mind's eye, a beautiful strong, handsome, loving black angel, with deep purple wings, and a dark blue flowing robe, I can reconcile somewhat, my fear of the unknown, and of dying. Death is just doing his job, coming to get us when it is time to leave this earthly plane.
The entity I feel in my room is possibly something I have created from the unanswered questions I have had everytime someone has passed away. It is a big "?". I have been told what to beleieve but I have always questioned, and felt myself guilty for my lack of fait in the Almighty. I also feel that it is entirely possible that when I travel down the tunnel, I could be bringing something back, something which is attatching itself to me. It is borrowing my energy, and I must reclaim this.
The key to solving this riddle-like dream for me is to "Take back" my control. To put things in perspective. I chose to be born, I one day will chose to die. But now, I choose to live, to my fullest, and I will not give away my precious energy, anymore.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
From Molly

Hello Savannah. Thank you for trusting us with your frightening dream and giving us the opportunity to work with our own "demons." I hope you find something helpful in our comments.

In my dreams I don't know if I'm asleep or awake, so I must be on the boundary between my conscious and unconscious, and it seems something unconscious is trying to get through to me. It pulls and pushes at me; I feel both drawn in and repelled. It's a dark tunnel, a great Unknown, and I want to know and am afraid to know. When I try to stop myself I feel pressured and find I cannot move, cannot awaken. The tunnel feels like a birth canal - is this a rebirth I am not yet ready to undergo? Am I not yet ready to awaken to my full potential? Yet I sense something is waiting for me. I feel the energy moving within me, trying to break through, and I hear myself speaking, hear my echo pleading, as if there is a great emptiness all around me. It feels like this energy is trying to trick me. I don't trust it, and certainly don't understand it.

Though I can see that some good has come out of these dreams - energy for life choices, creative inspiration and expression - I know that I must not surrender to this force that assaults me. And yet, I don't want to kill it. What I want is to understand it and have some control. I know that it is not evil, because it comes from within me and I am not evil. So if this were my dream I would want to confront this force and dialogue with it to find ways we might work together. I would think this through while awake, practicing what I might say and imagining how the energy might respond and how I would respond to that - and then, as I am falling asleep, I would focus on trying to bring this into the dream. I might want to ask the force how it might help me. I might thank it for the good that has come out of it. I might ask its name. I might imagine a different outcome. I also might read about lucid dreaming to help me bridge the gap between conscious and unconscious. Most of all, if this were my dream, I would relax and remember that a dream cannot harm me.
Molly
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From: Savannah

Beloved Dream Wheelers:

When I read your comments, over and again, my hands trembled and I cried tears of joy. Something deep inside of me was moved by each word, as you made my dream your own. For a moment, I felt like I was being pushed in and pulled out of the dark hole & in my waking hour. I felt like I was being reborn in each series of comments.

Here I am, surrounded by strangers, behind glass screens, telling them of my most intimate moment with self. You, with seemingly, no race, creed, or idea of who I am; except through the dark hole I am in, that also served as a key to the color of my skin, as well as, the place of my torment. Strangers, willing to walk in my shoes, to help me heal the inside me, that has fought for fifty-two years, to be free.

My goodness, reliving, each of you, reliving my dream, making it your own, Wow! I have never in my life seen anything like this before. I once was blind, but now I see. I know now these words have a meaning for me &

I used to think I knew about slavery, until I encounter the enslavement of myself. I used to think I would never have a life, doomed to live in a world filled with strife. Afraid of succeeding, pursuing failure like it was a badge of honor. Judging all, except this me that I am and cursing myself for betraying myself, proclaiming myself as one of the walking dead.

How can I say thanks to you, beloved dream wheelers? How can you know what you have done for me, unless I open myself, and allow you to see that now I understand, without fear, what everyone is talking about, in these troubled times & this unity. No brothers, no sisters, just souls helping souls to awaken &

There are all sorts of heroes/heroine and my heart goes out to the innocence folks that died on September 11, 2001. Nevertheless, I dare say, you are my heroes/heroines today. For during this crisis, where it was hard for me to see that being united was a good thing to be, even if I felt that, my country had betrayed and discriminated against me. That forgiveness and unity is good, for a new beginning & like a baby being born, a clean slate, and an empty tape to be filled with life.

I don t know where this awakening will take me, but I do know, from here on, I will be traveling with my eyes open. Forever aware of my dark hole and the road to my soul, enjoying this me that I am and hope to be; free, to live for the first time, risking myself to be myself, to enjoy life boldly.

May god/goddess, or whatever name you give to your higherself, grant to each of you, individually and collectively, a happy boon that rises each day to bring you joy. Including the knowing that each of you, unseen with flesh eyes, rest within this heart; that you have had mercy on, this day.

You are my heroes/heroines, the invisible faces that I see in the face of hope, a new dawn for me.

I used to think I knew who god/goddess was until I encountered each of you. Where I will begin is not as important as were I am, right now. Where I am right now, is not as important at where I will begin.

I feel good, yes, I do, yes I do! I feel good! Upon my word, I dare say & my soul rejoices this day, which is the first day of the rest of my life. For once, a cliché that feels just right. Alas, a baby is born becoming a child, becoming a girl, becoming a young lady, becoming a woman, each born at the same time, in an instance & right before your eyes. Moreover, I marveled, beloved, at your unity, and pleasantly surprise at your willingness to bypass self and help me. For each of you have joined as one to become the midwife of my deliverance.

Know this within your soul, that some parts of my truth, of who I am, you all have spoken to, and like a puzzle, I have connected the pieces. Whereas I understand the lost of the metaphorical biblical Lot, who lost his wife because she looked back, the divine dichotomy of it all is that I love salt. Salt, like the human element, is the seasons of life, without which, living would be so bland. I am sad for Lot s wife, but even in death she served a unique purpose, she put spice into his life. So it will be with my dark hole.

Bowing my head, in meditation & in prayer & I give thanks, and bless the day each of you was born, honored to be in your path, right now.

If you desire, each of you may communicate with me individually or collectively, or call on me if I can be of service to you. For each of you, are apart of me now, acknowledged.

I have a surprise for you, which I am testing out even as I write this. Something inside me is and has changed and is acting on the outside .. something wonderful. I am headed to the place of my birth, ________. There are things that I must put in motion so that all of this will not be in vain. I must wave goodbye to the past, taking the good from it, like the salt, and leaving the other behind, so that change can come about and thus my life will begin. I will email all changes and happening to each of you that commented as it happen. For I feel you should, because of your kindness, know what you have given birth to.

I shall keep in touch and let you know how it goes. Damn, I feel good! Thank you Lady Phyliss and feel free to post this to the Dreamwheeler board if you do desire, or to anyone I might have missed. If you didn't get a personal copy of this it mean your email address is incorrect. Thank you, thank you all and peace and blessings!

Also I welcome any more comments .. but I had to respond now.

I am all things and no name. I am Savannah.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
From: L.D.P

Dear Savannah,

I was very moved by your dream, your answers to other people's questions, and your response to the first group of comments you received. Thank you for sharing yourself so openly with us.

If this were my dream, I would keep in mind what Jeremy Taylor says about the purpose of nightmares: that they come to warn us that there's a "survival issue" at stake--but the survival is not about our body, but about our authentic self. When I'm not being true to myself, or when I'm about to do something that would violate who I really am, then I'll have a nightmare to warn me to get back on track. Usually when I'm not being true to myself, it's because I'm being pressured by someone--or by society as a whole--to be different from who I really am. Also, there may be a part of me that I'm not in touch with, so I may not even know who that part of me really is. (This is usually the result of messages I got from my parents and/or society when they didn't like who I was, so I suppressed my authentic self in order to be accepted and loved. Now the nightmare is coming to tell me that I need to reclaim the rejected parts of myself.)

In my dream, the black tunnel is both a birth canal and the tunnel that people pass through when they have a Near Death Experience. In either case, if I go through the tunnel, I will find light at the end. I will die to my old life, and I will be birthed into a new life.

The harder I fight against the force that wants to push me into the tunnel, the harder it presses me. This force really knows what is good for me, and it isn't going to give up! Of course I resist going through the tunnel, because it's terrifying to "die." I'm very attached to the way I am, even though my life is painful in many ways. At least I know what my life is like know, and that gives me some security. It's terrifying to give up being the way I am, without knowing who I'll be next. But this is the only way I can change and grow. The old me has to die before the new me can be born. (Someone gave me an example that helps me with this concept: The "girl who didn't know how to tie her shoes" has to die so that "the girl who knows how to tie her shoes" can be born. Children have many dreams of death because they go through so many changes in such a short time.) I'm afraid that I will "lose sight of myself or who I am." But if I grow, I will be able to see the new me as well as the old me--so I'll actually see more of who I am.

I am scared that I can only awaken from this dream if someone or something outside me makes a noise or shakes me. For me, this is because the dream isn't finished yet. If I go through the tunnel and see what happens on the other side, the dream will unfold naturally and I will wake up naturally. It's only because I don't allow the dream to continue that it doesn't stop on its own. (By the way, I believe what others have said--that dreams come to us for the purpose of our health and wholeness. I don't believe we can be harmed by dreams. I may be scared or physically hurt inside the dream, but when I wake up no damage had been done by the dream itself--although I may be hurt by my response to the dream if I misinterpret it and act according to my misunderstanding.)

If it were my dream, it would be directly related to my sleep disorder. I think that if I can allow the dream to unfold naturally, I will start sleeping naturally too. And if I get the "message" of the dream, then it will stop! Dreams don't come to tell us what we already know, so once I understand it, there will be no reason for me to have it--at least not until the next time in my life when I'm doing something that isn't true to who I am. But by then I'll know what to do--and if I go into the tunnel again, I'll be fine.

It's significant to me that when the entity enters me, it only moves under the skin of my face. Our skin and face are part of our "persona"--the part of ourselves that we present to the world. If my persona does not fit with my authentic self (probably because I've been taught to be ashamed of some part of myself and am hiding it), then the entity is trying to get under my skin and change my persona. If this were my dream, I would ask myself: In what ways doesn't my persona really fit me? Maybe I could literally make some changes in my face, e.g. in the make-up I wear (or don't wear). Or maybe the "face" is more symbolic, and I could make other changes in the way I present myself to the world (hair, clothes, the way I speak, sit, walk, etc.)

I'm also struck by the fact that the crawling under my skin feels like a snake. Snakes are a symbol of transformation, because they shed their skins and are "born" again with a new skin. Again, my dream is telling me that I need to "die" before I can be reborn with a new "skin." (The new skin makes me think of the new persona again.) I'm also interested that the "snake" only crawls on the left side of my face. My left side is my feminine side, so if it were my dream the change the dream is asking me to make has to do with my feminine nature. Because this dream started after my mother died, I wonder if some part of my feminine nature--maybe a part of me that identified with my mother--shut down at that time. And ever since then the dream has been trying to get me to reclaim that part of myself. At the very least, my life changed dramatically after my mother died, and I had to repress some part of me in order to deal with the new situation. If other people's expectations of me changed after my mother died, and I tried to live up to their expectations, then I had to repress authentic parts of myself to meet their expectations.

If the dream causes me to write, and if the writing that comes from the dream calms me down, I would want to start writing on a regular basis--even when I haven't had the dream. Maybe the dream is telling me that I'm a writer. Or maybe I just need to journal for self-expression. Either way, if I write by choice on a regular basis, then maybe I won't feel compelled to write as a result of the dream. It would be a lot less scary for me to write by choice than by compulsion! And if a lot of the writing I do after the dream is about things I try not to remember about my life, I would try to write about these things by choice. If writing about them as they actually happened is too scary, I could write about them in fiction, as if they happened to someone else. If even this is too hard, I might want to find a good therapist to talk about these things with. (There are "transpersonal" therapists who specialize in spiritual experiences--which is how I see this dream and the things it makes me do--and who won't think I'm crazy. A good transpersonal therapist will realize that I'm going through a spiritual crisis, and will help me work toward the spiritual awakening that this crisis can lead to.) Whenever I repress my memories, they cause me more pain than if I remember them. (I usually get pschosomatic symptoms--and nightmares!)

I hope this is helpful. I think you're an incredibly brave woman, and I wish you the best of luck in working through the issues that the dream has raised for you.

Best wishes, L.C.D.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
From: Savannah

L.C.D.,
You don't know how many times you hit the nail on the head with this one. I really apprecaite the effort you put into your comments. Know that I will take them to heart. - Savannah
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
From: Rod

Dear Savannah,

if this where my dream....

when I start to see myself in the dream, I can feel the force entering from the back and pushing and pulling towards the vortex. My face is to the North. I try to wake up but there's no use unless something external awakes me.

This scene reminds me about how much I like to control things. I always try to understand everything before I give it a try. I don't like to go blind when I make some decisions. I look North because I want to have a sense of direction, as the North start will represent this. But suddenly, from the back (which is the part I cannot see from
myself) enters the force. It is like if this force knows how weak I am about not seeing/controling things.

The force starts to pull/push and this sensation reminds me about how I go trough life... it's like if I wanted to strugle in order to feel I was alive, I never give myself a chance to just be there, just to breath. I always have to be doing something, to be productive... and that vortex... it's like no ground under my feet, I can't stand not having some ground under my feet... I just remember I have a body... and I treat it the same way... always pushing/pulling because there's always something to do, someone to help... and where does this take me ?...

I realize my mind is very active... it doesn't like to stand just for a moment... What's the hurry ? I start to think that I'm a prisoner of my own crazy mind.

A sensation in my face... like a lump... could it be that something inside me wants to get out ?

I think I will experiment with something new in my life... something which I don't control myself, I will let my body to do what it pleases... why not some handwriting... I will let the hand do what it wants and see what happens...

Interesting. Very pleasant and scary, like the push/pull loop. Where does it take me ? To the vortex... to something which is not hard ground... here control doesn't have place... I just let my self at something else's hands... can this something else be a subconscious mind ?... I don't know, it's out of my reach..?

After this experience I feel very inspired... like the lump, something comes from inside me...

Why am I scared then ?... It seems that I don't want to give up control... if I go through the vortex I will
have to give it up... to let go... I don't want to loose control... again the push/pull...

Rod
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
From: Savannah

Oh my goodness Rod .. Oh my goodness. Thank you! - Savannah

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>End of Session<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

We invite you to join us on the DreamWheel. There are currently 173 members on the Wheel, so obviously "lurking" is fine (you're also welcome to participate of course). Just send an email to dreamwheel-subscribe@yahoogroups.com or drop me a line at pthowing@earthlink.net. Or try out this dreamwork process in your own online groups.

Phyllis Howing, DreamWheel moderator
Richard Wilkerson, DreamWheel founder

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Developing Your Own Dreamwork Ethics
Richard Wilkerson

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The question of ethical dreamwork is about the acceptable behavior related to values. However, what is valued will differ from individual to individual and situation to situation. Thus the ideas of transparency and disclosure have become important in relation with ethical standards and behavior. These ideas are even more important in an online global community where people from vastly different value systems may be interacting.
Basically, the productive application of disclosure and transparency mean that your group is up-front about what they expect from one another and from other groups and individuals. Can the group tell others outside the group what they heard during a group discussion, or are some or all of the conversations confidential and only shared within the group?

Whether offline or online, dream sharing group boundaries of behavior are not standardized and especially open to a wide variance of unspoken expectations. Dreamwork flows between the boundaries of therapy, spirituality, the occult, personal growth, the arts and grassroots support groups. Each of these large fields of behavior have their own sub-sets of groups, each with their own values, goals and expectations. Adding to this the multicultural differences brought about by global communications multiplies the variance an makes the task of developing clear and accessible ethical guidelines ever more urgent.

What I would like to recommend here is that you as an individual develop your own ethical statement, and then use this when you join a group as a measure to decide if the group is going to fit for you. If you would like help in developing this personal statement, you are in luck, as many people in the Association for the Study of Dreams have been working on this process for sometime.

The Association for the Study of Dreams (ASD) is a non-profit, international, multidisciplinary organization dedicated to the pure and applied investigation of dreams and dreaming. Their purposes are to promote an awareness and appreciation of dreams in both professional and public arenas; to encourage research into the nature, function, and significance of dreaming; to advance the application of the study of dreams; and to provide a forum for the eclectic and interdisciplinary exchange of ideas and information.

In 1997 the ASD Ethics Committee, Chaired by Carol Warner, developed a dreamwork ethics statement that could be used as a guide for weighing and evaluating the ethics of a dream sharing venue or group. http://www.asdreams.org/ethics.htm

In 2000, Ed Kellogg provided a template which could be used for other groups to develop similar ethical statements.
http://www.asdreams.org/dreamwork_ethics_template.htm

"We (or name of organization/website) celebrate the many benefits of dreamwork, yet recognizes that there are potential risks. We agree with the ethical position taken by the Association for the Study of Dreams (link to ASDs ethical statement page), in that we support an approach to dreamwork and dream sharing that respects the dreamer's dignity and integrity, and which recognizes the dreamer as the decision-maker regarding the significance of the dream. Systems of dreamwork that assign authority or knowledge of the dream's meanings to someone other than the dreamer can be misleading, incorrect, and harmful. Ethical dreamwork helps the dreamer work with his/her own dream images, feelings, and associations, and guides the dreamer to more fully experience, appreciate, and understand the dream.

Every dream may have multiple meanings, and different techniques may be reasonably employed to touch these multiple layers of significance. A dreamer's decision to share or discontinue sharing a dream should always be respected and honored. The dreamer should be forewarned that unexpected
issues or emotions may arise in the course of the dreamwork. Information and mutual agreement about the degree of privacy and confidentiality are essential ingredients in creating a safe atmosphere for dream sharing.

Dreamwork outside a clinical setting is not a substitute for psychotherapy, or other professional treatment, and should not be used as such.

We recognize and respect that there are many valid and time-honored dreamwork traditions. We invite and welcome the participation of dreamers from all cultures. There are social, cultural, and transpersonal aspects to dream experience. In this statement we do not mean to imply that the only valid approach to dreamwork focuses on the dreamer's personal life. Our purpose is to honor and respect the person of the dreamer as well as the dream itself, regardless of how the relationship between the two may be understood."

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The Electric Dreams used this template to create their own statement below.

Note that the Electric Dreams community has several dream sharing venues, some of which follow this guide and other that don't. The DreamWheel, for example, follows the guides very closely as it is an intimate sharing in a confidential setting among peers. However, the Electric Dreams e-zine is a free speech forum for dreams and dreamers, and thereby allows a wider range of response that is less moderated and guided by the ethics statement.

"Electric Dreams DreamWheel Dreamwork Ethics Statement"

The Electric Dreams community celebrates the many benefits of dreamwork, yet recognizes that there are potential risks. We agree with the ethical position taken by the Association for the Study of Dreams (http://www.asdream.org), in that we support an approach to dreamwork and dream sharing that respects the dreamer's dignity and integrity, and which recognizes the dreamer as the decision-maker regarding the significance of the dream. Systems of dreamwork that assign authority or knowledge of the dream's meanings to someone other than the dreamer can be misleading, incorrect, and harmful. Ethical dreamwork helps the dreamer work with his/her own dream images, feelings, and associations, and guides the dreamer to more fully experience, appreciate, and understand the dream.

Every dream may have multiple meanings, and different techniques may be reasonably employed to touch these multiple layers of significance. A dreamer's decision to share or discontinue sharing a dream should always be respected and honored. The dreamer should be forewarned that unexpected issues or emotions may arise in the course of the dreamwork. Information and mutual agreement about the degree of privacy and confidentiality are essential ingredients in creating a safe atmosphere for dream sharing.

Dreamwork outside a clinical setting is not a substitute for psychotherapy, or other professional treatment, and should not be used as such.

We recognize and respect that there are many valid and time-honored dreamwork traditions. We invite and welcome the participation of dreamers from all cultures. There are social, cultural, and transpersonal aspects to dream experience. In this statement we do not mean to imply that the only valid approach to dreamwork focuses on the dreamer's personal life. Our purpose is to honor and respect the person of the dreamer as well as the dream itself, regardless of how the relationship between the two may be understood.

The Electric Dreams Community, March 2000